# The ongoing problem with misogyny on the SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 1, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395 "2018-12-01T14:32:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/41 "2018-12-01T23:55:06Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think men are capable of understanding the definition of words. I also don’t accept that only women can decide what is misogynistic, even if I think men often miss the mark and should take women seriously when they point it out. But I’m not going to agree to blind acceptance 100% of the time. > > Are we to say that the male moderators here can’t moderate for misogyny (without first being prompted by a woman)? Totally agreed, forwarding your own stupid, sexist idea is a terrible way to fight misogyny. In regard to the OP: Yeah, there’s way too many instances of folks taking about MC when the subject is FGM. I think the subjects really aren’t related in any meaningful way. A tighter moderation of hijacks to the FGM threads would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2018, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/42 "2018-12-01T23:55:06Z")
That thread is in the Pit so the protocols are different. A thread about FGM that excludes male circumcision is fine with me in GD. I’m a dude but I think I’m capable of moderating it - I’m sure folks will let me know if I’m missing something. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/43 "2018-12-02T00:04:00Z")
John Mace’s post was one of agreement. He agreed that hijacking a thread about FGM to talk about male issues was a form of misogyny. He agreed it should be moderated, same as Czarcasm and every other poster in this thread besides jackdavinci. Since he’s agreeing, I see no reason to jump on him. He’s right that men can also understand what misogyny is after listening to what women have to say. I think the biggest issue before the women started speaking up was not that we men supported misogyny here, but that, as guys, we didn’t notice it so acutely. We might notice some of it, but we thought of those posters as jerks who didn’t matter. Now that we are more aware, most of us are willing to join you. We do not dismiss your experience and do find your arguments compelling. I join with nearly everyone in this thread to say that hijacking a FGM thread to be about male circumcision fits the general trend of guys hijacking a female issues thread and should be moderated. If the mods catch it early, I think it may be sufficient to tell them to take the male circumcison topic and/or the “which is worse” argument to a new thread. If they persist, then Warnings. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/44 "2018-12-02T01:31:11Z")
The misandry in this thread is astounding. “Men can’t define words”. “Mutilation of infants is less serious if they’re male”. Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/45 "2018-12-02T02:10:34Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The misandry in this thread is astounding. “Men can’t define words”. “Mutilation of infants is less serious if they’re male”. Ridiculous. The male version of the “mutilation” is much less severe than the female version, to the point that it’s frankly insulting that you would compare the two. It really doesn’t take a genius to figure that out ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/46 "2018-12-02T02:46:22Z")
I think it’s totally legit to argue that FGM, male circumcision, and glue sniffing are _exactly the same thing_. In fact I think that deserves its own thread. One separate from FGM. And separate from male circumcision. Glue sniffing deserves its own thread as well. > [@SmartAleq](#): > > You know what the world needs? More men deciding what is and isn’t misogyny. I mean, it’s not like we’ve EVER been allowed to define it ourselves–no, it’s not canon until Some Guy declares it is. I declare this canon. > [@](#): > > **Babale** has already banged it square on the bean because it is actually functionally impossible to have ANY discussion of ANY topic that focuses on how that topic affects women without the fucking Kool-Aid pitcher busting through the wall squealing, “BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ!!!1!ELEVENTY!!” And it’s not just here, it’s EVERYWHERE. They simply cannot help themselves. Online, IRL, doesn’t matter–men generally simply MUST have their say about absolutely every topic and must obligatorily shift focus to how it affects them. Once again: canon. Make it so. > [@](#): > > This is a function of privilege, which dictates that the group of perceived higher status must be taken into account at all times, their preferences catered to and their noxious opinions heard no matter how tangential or irrelevant they might be to the subject at hand. Well yes, but it’s complicated: there are many factors involved. Well not really, but I think general jackassery (not exclusive to males, but pushing 90% representation) deserves a mention as well. > [@](#): > > Now let’s see how long it takes for some indignant man to declare “BUT NOT ALL MEN!!!” because that’s a part of it–women or other marginalized groups are not allowed to make any sort of blanket statement regarding the behavior of men in general without also petting down their hurt feewings by assuring them that OF COURSE you don’t mean THEM–just all the OTHER men who insist on being treated as special in every space. Well certainly not on _this_ message board. Here we only have perfect gentlemen, learned scholars, and circumcision obsessives. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/47 "2018-12-02T03:36:44Z")
> [@SmartAleq](#): > > **Babale** has already banged it square on the bean because it is actually functionally impossible to have ANY discussion of ANY topic that focuses on how that topic affects women without the fucking Kool-Aid pitcher busting through the wall squealing, “BUT WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ???!!1!ELEVENTY!!” And it’s not just here, it’s EVERYWHERE. Not on this message board. Take this summary of the current pit thread on FGM: I note the topic of each post: BBQ pit, FGM, 2018: [https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824581](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=824581) 1. FGM 2. joke 3. comment 4. fix typo 5. FGM 6. FGM=MC 7. FGM=MC 8. FGM!=MC 9. FGM!=MC 10. FGM=MC 11. MC also 12. fix typo 13. FGM=MC 14. FGM!=MC 15. FGM 16. Um guys? BWHAHAAHA: holy crap it’s like a parody of SmartAleq’s post. I trust though that the women of this message board are just like the men: surely they chime in about FGM every time there’s a male circumcision thread in the pit right? Surely right: BBQ pit, MC, 2012: > **[Attn circumcised: your mother is likely a sex offender](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=658588)** > > If you are circumcised, this thread is about you. If you aren’t, it isn’t. If your mother brought you to the medical authorities for circumcision, she is an accomplice to sexual assualt; more specifically, male genital mutilation. If social... 1. MC 2. MC: mockery of OP 3. mockery 4. response to mockery 5. jokes 6. mockery 7. joke 8. MC 9. The hell? (MC) 10. Wise moderation: GD -\> Pit 11. Challenge OP (MC) 12. joke 13. Holy shit, that’s a stupid op. 14. Clarification. 15. joke 16. Joke about op 17. joke 18. Ur crazy 19. rolleyes 20. troll accusation … 21. “Through the years, I’ve become acquainted with both circumcised and uncircumcised penises, and I have to say that dick cheese is something I prefer to live without.” Psych! No references to FGM on the first page. A total of one female-centric post, and frankly it was topical. If you want some slightly mixed evidence consider this 2004 thread on why opponents to male circumcision are so obsessive. BBQ pit: 2004 > **[Circumcision debate - why the obsession?](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb//showthread.php?t=263883)** > > There is something I don’t fucking get about a certain subset of circumcision debaters. I manage a large online community and in it we have an area about circumcision and a debate forum. Most folks seem to debate and enjoy it, but go on about their... 1. MC (why so obsessed?) 2. Link 3. MC 4. Name? 5. Hoo boy, MC!=FGM, and arguments to the contrary support the OP’s contention. 6. MC 7. MC 8. MC 9. MC 10. MC 11. MC 12. MC=FGM 13. MC 14. FGM!=MC 15. MC 16. FGM!=MC 17. MC. Plus a little misogyny. 18 MC 18. MC 19. MC 20. FGM!=MC 21. MC 22. FGM!=MC, mostly 23. MC 24. housekeeping 25. MC 26. FGM!=MC, mostly 27. MC 28. joke 29. MC 30. MC 31. MC 33 MC 34 joke 32. MC 33. MC: female perspective 34. joke 35. MC 39 MC 40 MC 41 MC 42 MC 43 MC 44 MC 45 MC 46 MC 47 MC 48 MC, from female perspective 49 MC 50 MC Here the FGM/MC debate was actually relevant to the OP, and yet it petered out (ha!) after a while. Dudes simply have a habit of grabbing the microphone and not letting go. Women not so much. Anyway, I thought a little data might be interesting. I think we’re up the 99.9999999% significance level. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/48 "2018-12-02T03:39:11Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The misandry in this thread is astounding. “Men can’t define words” So, you’re saying you’re circumscribed? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/49 "2018-12-02T09:49:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The misandry in this thread is astounding. “Men can’t define words”. “Mutilation of infants is less serious if they’re male”. Ridiculous. “But what about the men!” in a thread about misogyny :smack:- it’s like you thought the OP was best backed up with a concrete example of the kind of “Well, actually…” fuckaboutery in question… ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/50 "2018-12-02T11:30:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > “But what about the men!” in a thread about misogyny :smack:- it’s like you thought the OP was best backed up with a concrete example of the kind of “Well, actually…” fuckaboutery in question… It’s not “what about the men”, it’s “what about the hypocrisy”. I honestly think that if a man spoke up about having been raped in a #metoo thread here, some people would try to silence him. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/51 "2018-12-02T11:52:26Z")
You’d be wrong! A man did speak up about being raped, and his story was welcomed, and he was supported. But thanks for proving exactly how throughly your perception is at odds with reality. MRDIBBLE on the other hand, nailed it! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/52 "2018-12-02T12:10:49Z")
Silencing a man who has been raped is every bit as bad as silencing a woman who has been raped and it should be called out. That said, if the topic is explicitly about woman who are raped (as opposed to inclusive of men, children, goats, cocker spaniels, doorknobs, etc.) it might be appropriate to say “We acknowledge your experience but we’re focusing on this particular subset of the issue. Would you like to start a thread about your subset?” Or the topic could be expanded to include a wider field of discussion than the original topic. And that’s why we have human moderators and discussions like _this_ thread, because context and tone matters. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/53 "2018-12-02T13:28:41Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > You’d be wrong! A man did speak up about being raped, and his story was welcomed, and he was supported. Glad to hear it. Hopefully the men who speak up about having their gentitals mutilated as infants will be as welcome in the threads about infant genital mutilation in the future. > [@Broomstick](#): > > That said, if the topic is explicitly about woman who are raped (as opposed to inclusive of men, children, goats, cocker spaniels, doorknobs, etc.) it might be appropriate to say “We acknowledge your experience but we’re focusing on this particular subset of the issue. Would you like to start a thread about your subset?” It would be inappropriate to have such a thread in the first place, as rape is not an issue specific to women - and indeed, it’s becoming more clear in recent years just how much sexual abuse of men has been hidden. Now, a thread about (for example) pregnancy resulting from rape would be necessarily focussed on women, and men don’t have relevant experience to share - so bringing up their issues would in that case be threadshitting. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/54 "2018-12-02T14:11:59Z")
**Moderator Note** > [@Steophan](#): > > The misandry in this thread is astounding. “Men can’t define words”. “Mutilation of infants is less serious if they’re male”. Ridiculous. The topic of this thread is misogyny, not misandry. If you want to discuss misandry, do so in another thread. Do not post in this thread again. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/55 "2018-12-02T14:30:57Z")
No, the analogous situation would be a thread about rape and a man came in and started talking about how a false rape accusation is also really bad, and is on par with some instances of rape. It’s true that false rape accusations are really, really horrible, and it’s true that there may even be cases that are as horrible as actual rape, but bringing it up in a thread about rape is threadshitting: it’s superficially the same topic, but isn’t, really, and bringing it up in that context creates the impression that the person doing so is trying to minimize or dismiss experiences of women by suggesting rape is part of a spectrum of violations that includes false accusations. It comes across as, once again, needing a generally-female experience to be redefined as a global experience, where the male experience is the baseline and the female is the variant. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/56 "2018-12-02T14:52:39Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > No, the analogous situation would be a thread about rape and a man came in and started talking about how a false rape accusation is also really bad, and is on par with some instances of rape. It’s true that false rape accusations are really, really horrible, and it’s true that there may even be cases that are as horrible as actual rape, but bringing it up in a thread about rape is threadshitting: it’s superficially the same topic, but isn’t, really, and bringing it up in that context creates the impression that the person doing so is trying to minimize or dismiss experiences of women by suggesting rape is part of a spectrum of violations that includes false accusations. It comes across as, once again, needing a generally-female experience to be redefined as a global experience, where the male experience is the baseline and the female is the variant. Or to use another example, if in a thread about rape some guy came in and started complaining about the time a woman at a bar grabbed his ass. There’s a big difference between groping (even though groping is still wrong) and penetrative rape, just like there’s a difference between non intrusively removing a flap of skin from the penis vs cutting into/away the clitoris. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/57 "2018-12-02T14:59:56Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I honestly think that if a man spoke up about having been raped in a #metoo thread here, some people would try to silence him. That has \*literally \*not been my experience. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/58 "2018-12-02T15:03:38Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Glad to hear it. Hopefully the men who speak up about having their gentitals mutilated as infants will be as welcome in the threads about infant genital mutilation in the future. I know Steophan isn’t allowed to post anymore, but I more wanted to highlight what was attempted here for others - notice how the subject was morphed to " infant genital mutilation" rather than “female genital mutilation”? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/59 "2018-12-02T15:47:44Z")
The FGM thread was about a specific legal case that happened in the United States. It’s extremely relevant to bring up male circumcision in that context because the defendant argued that what she did was similar to male circumcision and for that reason it should be allowed. Now you can either accept or reject that argument, but you can’t say it’s an irrelevant hijack. To address the “misogyny” charges of the OP, I’d suggest we be cautious about ascribing malicious motives to people that can’t be proven. I haven’t seen any hatred of women expressed in that thread. Unless the OP is telepathic, he doesn’t know what’s in people’s minds. Even if it is ruled a hijack by the mods, there are other possible motivations involved here than misogyny. An alternative explanation is that the alleged thread “hijackers” are motivated by a belief in universal human rights and a desire to protect all children from harm regardless of their sex. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395/60 "2018-12-02T15:54:05Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > An alternative explanation is that the alleged thread “hijackers” are motivated by a belief in universal human rights and a desire to protect all children from harm regardless of their sex. I 100% believe that’s your motivation. Would you be okay if an animal rights proponent came into the thread and started talking about how neutering a dog was even worse genital mutilation than anything talked about so far, and if they kept doubling and tripling down? Would you be like, “Okay, this has made it nearly impossible to talk about infant genital mutilation, but that’s cool, because their motive is sincere”? Or would you be like, “Fuck off, dude, start your own thread if you want to complain about spaying and neutering”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ongoing-problem-with-misogyny-on-the-sdmb/825395.md?page=4)