# The only Middle-Eastern country allowed to have nukes is Israel. Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 20, 2004, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980 "2004-04-20T05:14:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/21 "2004-04-20T13:43:42Z")
I wouldn’t be surprised if Israel has spied on The US on occassion. Frankly, I’d be dissapointed if I learned that the US _doesn’t_ spy on Israel. In the modern world, everyone spies on everyone else. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/22 "2004-04-20T14:59:58Z")
> [@filmyak](#): > > Then there’s Israel. The ONLY Democracy in the region. And when the Arab residents there aren’t uprising, Israel lets them live in total peace. Look at the period from the 80’s to the late 90’s, before the current uprising. There were occasional terrorist attacks there, but Arabs were free to live and work in Israel as they pleased. Heck, there’s an Arab mosque smack dab on top of the holiest site in Jewish history, but Israel has not knocked it down. Could you imagine a synagogue being allowed to stand on the site where Mecca is? Excuse me, but you seem somewhat unaware that Gaza and the Left Bank are not part of Israel. They are territories occupied by Israel and the inhabitants are rightly unhappy with the situation. And for the current uprising, it was provoked by Ariel Sharon visiting the mosque that you also seem to think is in Israel. It’s not. That part of Jerusalem is also occupied territory. And BTW It is also one of the holiest site in moslem history as in christian. ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/23 "2004-04-20T15:45:23Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Excuse me, but you seem somewhat unaware that Gaza and the Left Bank are not part of Israel. They are territories occupied by Israel and the inhabitants are rightly unhappy with the situation. And for the current uprising, it was provoked by Ariel Sharon visiting the mosque that you also seem to think is in Israel. It’s not. That part of Jerusalem is also occupied territory. And BTW It is also one of the holiest site in moslem history as in christian. That’s like saying Texas isn’t part of the U.S. Except it was won in a war and the U.S. has kept it. Gaza and the Jordan River’s West Bank were won in a war in which the surrounding Arab nations attacked Israel. Now the Israelis are looking at returning chunks for potential peace. Hasn’t worked yet. Just ask Arafat who refused to compromise when the last Israeli govt conceeded to 90+% of his demands. As for Sharon’s visit to a mosque… so what? Pay attention here. We’re talking about a non-violent visit of a head of state to a church. Granted, I think Sharon was an idiot for doing it, but I mean really… to use that as a reason for a massive uprising? He didn’t graffitti the walls or anything, he just VISITED! And lastly, it may be a holy site to Chrisitians and Moslems, too… but it’s in Israeli controlled territory, even if you won’t call it part of Israel. It was also a holy site in Judaism long before it became one for the other religions. (How many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the Koran? Is it twice? Compare that to the Jewish bible.) And again, if Mecca was a holy site to the same three religions, and there was a Jewish or Christian house of worship on the site, there’s no doubt the Saudis would have torn it down long and ago and replaced it with a mosque. The Israelis haven’t done that. The one sentence version being a quote I once heard, which I fully believe. If the Arab nations put down their weapons, there would be peace in the Middle East. If the Israelis put down their weapons, they would be massacred. Off topic a bit, but it’s just more evidence of why I’m perfectly ok with the only rational gov’t in the region having nuclear weapons. And no, I’m not Israeli or Jewish. Just someone who greatly favors global democracy over Islamic regimes. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/24 "2004-04-20T16:05:20Z")
Donald Rumsfeld gave the answer about 6 weeks in a news conference. An Arab reporter asked him exactly the same question as the OP. And Rumsfeld replied " You already know the answer to that. Israel has arranged things in such a way that they dont get thrown into the sea" cite: [http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/005901.php](http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/005901.php) ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/25 "2004-04-20T16:25:29Z")
It’s also worth pointing out that Israel is the only country in the Middle East never to have had a:[list=A] [li] revolution[/li][li]civil war[/li][li]Hi, Sitt **OpalCat** :)[/li][li] palace uprising[/li][li]military coup[/li][li] attempt at any of the above.[/li][li]Or anything else, other than an election.[/li][/list] In the Global Village, Atom Bombs in the hands of your neighbors are a chancy thing. If your neighbors get murdered & their houses siezed by bandits & wack-jobs frequently, you get all nervous. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/26 "2004-04-20T17:34:38Z")
Arabic nations will have nuclear weapons. Islamic nations will have nuclear weapons. Ultimately, given enough time, any nation or faction that wants them will acquire nuclear weapons. A foreign policy based on the premise that we can stop nuclear proliferation is an ostrich policy. The important questions are what we are doing, and what should be be doing, to make the world a less dangerous one in which for nuclear proliferation to continue. (Right at the moment, the discrepancy between the answers to those questions kinda sucks) ---
**Author:** ![Largo62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@Largo62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Largo62)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/27 "2004-04-20T20:07:56Z")
> [@](#): > > The Rosenbergs were tried for spying on behalf of the Soviets, not Israel You are correct, **Asteroide**. I don’t know what I was thinking. > [@](#): > > Saddam Hussein wasn’t (isn’t ?) a muslim extremist, quite the opposite - he initially represented himself as a socialist / secularist. I’ll grant you the Saddam Hussein isn’t a Muslim extremist himself. I doubt that he believes in anything outside himself. But he has used Muslim fanaticism that exists in his country for his own purposes. > [@](#): > > Describing Israel as a primarily secular state could be a little misleading - many of Israel’s actions are predicated by religious tradition (cf Jerusalem, settlers etc) and the religious extremists have a strong voice in governmant. Any Israelis on the boards might be able to fill in the details here. I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel is not a Jewish state. But it is a Jewish state in the same sense that most Americans consider the US to be a Christian one (often adding insincerely the prefix “Judeo-”). Of course the government of Israel seeks to advance Jewish interests, but I doubt that the Torah is written into it’s constitution any more than the New Testament is written into ours. That’s what I meant by secular. > [@](#): > > As for why Israel has nukes - well, they have the technology, the connections, and tacit support from the US. I think acquiescence is a better word than support. Once the US used a nuclear bomb in Japan the genie was pretty much out of the bottle. It was inevitable that other nations would acquire nukes. There was little America could do about that but delay. > [@](#): > > Has Irael actually officially acknowledged having nuclear weapons? I don’t know whether they have acknowledged them officially, but I seem to remember reading about Israeli nuclear tests in the Negev many years ago. With or without an official announcement, it’s to Israel’s advantage that it’s neighbors believe it has them. As to my memory, though, you’ve already pointed out that it’s faulty. I can’t disagree. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/28 "2004-04-20T20:17:02Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > It’s also worth pointing out that Israel is the only country in the Middle East never to have had a:[list=A] > [li] revolution[/li][li]civil war[/li][li]Hi, Sitt **OpalCat** :)[/li][li] palace uprising[/li][li]military coup[/li][li] attempt at any of the above.[/li][li]Or anything else, other than an election.[/li][/list] > > In the Global Village, Atom Bombs in the hands of your neighbors are a chancy thing. If your neighbors get murdered & their houses siezed by bandits & wack-jobs frequently, you get all nervous. By choosing dates very carefully, the same can be said of any country. I would say that the lead-up to independence certainly could count as a revolution. And if the 1948 unpleasantness does not include a civil war than our definitions of a civil war don’t match. And I definitely need a site about the lack of **OpalCat** ’s ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/29 "2004-04-20T20:19:07Z")
> [@MMI](#): > > And I definitely need a site about the lack of **OpalCat** ’s D’oh: site = cite ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/30 "2004-04-20T20:20:23Z")
> [@DesertGeezer](#): > > I’ll grant you the Saddam Hussein isn’t a Muslim extremist himself. I doubt that he believes in anything outside himself. But he has used Muslim fanaticism that exists in his country for his own purposes. In what way(s) for example? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/31 "2004-04-20T21:49:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > As evidenced by North Korea and Pakistan, there’s no “allowing” involved here. Israel has the bomb because they had the means to build it and the U.S. didn’t actively stop them from doing so - same as India, Pakistan, and North Korea. Anyone who thinks this is a case of keeping Muslims from having nukes has a lot of ‘splainin’ to do concerning Pakistan, the world’s second most populous Muslim country, owning them. Granted, Pakistan’s not Arabic, but it’s a lot closer to the neighborhood than North Korea. > > The OP’s question isn’t even phrased correctly. Well, you’re right, I didn’t express myself as well as I should have. I’m talking about the world post 9/11, for one thing, and the Middle East in particular, though there are other nations worth considering. At any rate, the Bush mandate these days seems to be the prevention of nuclear proliferation by any and all means in the Muslim world. That much is pretty clear. What about the world in general? Let’s put it this way: Both Libya and Iran, clearly actively pursuing nuclear weapons programmes, have capitulated to the clear threat of sanctions or even invasion, and have given up their bids for nukes (at least for now). I doubt Syria would even dream of it, at this point. No. Korea? They seem undeterrred. Are we putting as much pressure on them as, say, Iran and Libya? And, how would we be dealing with Pakistan’s nukes if Pakistan had not chosen to support us in the War Against Terror? I suspect we might be putting pressure on them to disarm. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/32 "2004-04-20T22:13:26Z")
“The Lord’s our shepherd Says the Psalm But just in case… We better get a bomb!” _“Who’s Next”_ - Tom Lehrer ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/33 "2004-04-20T23:10:13Z")
\*\* MMI\*\* – I misspoke when I refered to “revolution”. I apologize. It was not my intention to argue that particular point. ---
**Author:** ![the\_first\_supraliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@the\_first\_supraliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_first_supraliminal)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/34 "2004-04-21T01:57:51Z")
I wonder why North Korea is not considered a problem any more. At one time we were quite intense on sabre-rattling, and now it’s all soft sell diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/35 "2004-04-21T02:03:25Z")
> [@the first supraliminal](#): > > I wonder why North Korea is not considered a problem any more. > At one time we were quite intense on sabre-rattling, and now it’s all soft sell diplomacy. Because the last thing we need is a war on a THIRD front while we’re stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan. Besides, if we hit N Korea too hard, they can nuke our allies in S Korea. Not good. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/36 "2004-04-21T02:11:50Z")
> [@Bosda Di'Chi of Tricor](#): > > \*\* MMI\*\* – I misspoke when I refered to “revolution”. > > I apologize. It was not my intention to argue that particular point. Understood. And I am certainly not going to argue that there is not a qualitative difference between Israel’s government and stability and those of it’s neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/37 "2004-04-21T02:22:43Z")
> [@Floater](#): > > Excuse me, but you seem somewhat unaware that Gaza and the **Left Bank** are not part of Israel. They are territories occupied by Israel and the inhabitants are rightly unhappy with the situation. Israel is occupying Paris? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/38 "2004-04-21T03:15:29Z")
> [@filmyak](#): > > Then there’s Israel. The ONLY Democracy in the region. Woah, when did Turkey and Egypt up and move to South America? I need to start watching CNN more O\_o Ooh, does this mean that Iraq can have nukes once we Americanize it? > [@](#): > > And when the Arab residents there aren’t uprising, Israel lets them live in total peace. Look at the period from the 80’s to the late 90’s, before the current uprising. There were occasional terrorist attacks there, but Arabs were free to live and work in Israel as they pleased. Yea, rebellions usually work that way. > [@](#): > > Heck, there’s an Arab mosque smack dab on top of the holiest site in Jewish history, but Israel has not knocked it down. Could you imagine a synagogue being allowed to stand on the site where Mecca is? I think that has more to do with “not wanting to start wars to the death with every country in the region.” When there are millions of violent Jews surrounding Mecca, I don’t think the Saudis would be in much position to protest. > [@](#): > > then we can go in and take their nukes away from them. That’s the funniest thing I’ve heard all day. Well, almost. > [@](#): > > In the meantime, I hope their “live and let live” policy spreads to their neighbors in the near future, but I won’t be holding my breath. Funny, I thought their policy was “kill the bastards trying to kill us.” Israel got taken over by hippies? Was that before or after the ME states started moving to South America? ---
**Author:** ![filmyak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@filmyak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmyak)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/39 "2004-04-21T03:38:37Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Woah, when did Turkey and Egypt up and move to South America? I need to start watching CNN more Turkey is a shining example of possibilities. Jews and Muslims have been living there together peacefully for quite some time. it’s one of the reasons there were terrorist attacks there this year, because other Islamic nations are not happy the the Jews are tolerated there. Also, notice we’re not threatening to bomb Eqypt any time soon. Though their peace treaty was pretty much forced after they tried (and failed at) an unprovoked attack against Israel. > [@](#): > > Yea, rebellions usually work that way. Your point? Peace and prosperity is bad? Arabs had full rights to work, live, learn, travel. Jews and Arabs were in business together. What’s the problem? Your sarcasm is absurd there. > [@](#): > > I think that has more to do with “not wanting to start wars to the death with every country in the region.” When there are millions of violent Jews surrounding Mecca, I don’t think the Saudis would be in much position to protest. No, I think it has to do with the Jews not being a people bent on the destruction of Islam. It’s the only one of the three religions in the area to say the other two religions are good people who can go to heaven. They have no desire to convert their neighbors or turn the entire world into an extremist regime (which is the public goal of groups like al qaeda). Again, name the last time Israelis committed terrorist acts in… Europe? Africa? the U.S.? > [@](#): > > Funny, I thought their policy was “kill the bastards trying to kill us.” No, that’s the current means to defend themselves against an army that sends children with bombs out to massacre civilians. Luckily, the situation isn’t what it seems you’d prefer: Israel annihilated and the Arab states that hate Western society armed to the teeth with long range nuclear weapons. ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980/40 "2004-04-21T03:52:02Z")
> [@SimonX](#): > > Because…? > > Israel has spied on us. > In addition, a certain member of the neocon cabal trusted by the WH has been caught supplying Israel with classified national security info, yet retains access to such material. > So I’m not sure what kind of trust you’re implying here. [http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/economicspying010305.html](http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/DailyNews/economicspying010305.html) So can France be trusted with nukes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-only-middle-eastern-country-allowed-to-have-nukes-is-israel-why/240980.md?page=3)