# The open office hate thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518 "2019-11-16T00:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/21 "2019-11-19T00:07:25Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > It took my longer than I care to admit to realize this wasn’t about the Microsoft knock-off software, OpenOffice. I thought it was either going to be about OpenOffice or an “open” thread about “office hate”. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/22 "2019-11-19T00:13:57Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > The place I retired from had open FLOOR concept! I’m surprised the restrooms didn’t end up being bare toilets in the middle of everywhere. You haven’t really lived until you’ve had a face to face conversation with someone while sitting on the toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/23 "2019-11-19T00:24:22Z")
I almost thought this would be about [OpenOffice.org](http://OpenOffice.org). If I close my office door, I feel less embarrassed when patients walk by because they can’t see my piles and piles of paperwork. But on the flip-side I can’t keep eyes on my staff and after a while they are sure to find some reason to barge in. At which point the door doesn’t close itself, and I would have to get up… also the scan machine is outside my office… Yeah, I guess my office has nothing in common with **HMS Irruncible** ’s. I do get up and close the door if kids are screaming, or if women wear strong perfume, or if I need to make a sensitive phone call. ETA: for some reason this thread reminded me of race horse blinders. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/24 "2019-11-19T00:41:18Z")
We have an open office plan. It’s okay, though it was better before - when it was _still_ an open office plan, but we all had our backs to one another, essentially all ten of us in one giant cubicle with all our desks around the edges of it facing the wall and a little table in the middle that would occasionally sprout donuts. This setup was great - we could (and did) spin our chairs when somebody needed to talk to somebody else, and if things got complicated then at which point people could roll over if needed. This was optimal in a lot of ways - way better for communication than the cubes were. It also wasn’t particularly noisy, because most of us are computer programmers and can work in complete silence for days at a time. When conversations happened they were sparse, rarely more than one at a time, and you kept half an ear open in case it was something you should know or could help with. We did have a pair of testers who would have non-work conversations now and then, but they tended to be interesting and could be listened to or tuned out if necessary. Or to put it succinctly: It worked well because we’re mostly quiet and don’t have any loudmouthed assholes. Things are a bit worse now because somebody in upper management wandered by and saw us all sitting silently at work - how could we be communicating! Our backs were to each other! It’s not like our chairs are on swivels or anything oh wait they are! So it came to pass that A Change Was Made. And that change was to move four of the people off of the walls into freestanding desks in the middle, so that they (at least) would be looking at each other. In theory. So, to make a short story short, I now have a small desk and no walls to pin anything to, and when I stare ahead of me I see…computer monitors. A wall of computer monitors blocking me from being able to see half of the people in my section. So yeah, things are worse - because they’re _less_ open. But again, I only pine for the good old more-open days because we’re a quiet bunch anyway. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/25 "2019-11-19T02:20:12Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Things are a bit worse now because somebody in upper management wandered by and saw us all sitting silently at work - how could we be communicating! Our backs were to each other! It’s not like our chairs are on swivels or anything oh wait they are! So it came to pass that A Change Was Made. And that change was to move four of the people off of the walls into freestanding desks in the middle, so that they (at least) would be looking at each other. Cool thing about these arrangements, the folks who are most convinced in their effectiveness will do everything possible to avoid sitting in them. UNLESS they are the types who spend all their times in meetings, then it’s no great shakes to sit around the worker bees making sure they feel relaxed and unmonitored. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/26 "2019-11-19T02:50:26Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > A lot of American-based companies are also on the “the Japanese do it and look at how great their products, etc., are, so we should do it too” train, without realizing that a lot of what makes it work in Japan is the culture, not the floorplan. Is it 1985 where you work? Who follows the “Japanese way of doing business” in this day and age? Of course it works for Japan’s “salaryman” culture of mindless obedience to corporate tradition and authority. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/27 "2019-11-19T02:53:15Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yes agree with the OP. > > An open office is supposed to create an environment of communication. It’s total bullshit. Buzzword bingo to make excuses. Now, something like advertising or marketing where you do a lot of brainstorming might do well to have an open office. Computer programming? I’m not so sure. Maybe during the initial phase when you’re working with flow charts and big ideas, but that’s what meeting rooms are for, right? ~Max ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/28 "2019-11-19T07:21:40Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Is it 1985 where you work? Who follows the “Japanese way of doing business” in this day and age? Pretty much anyone using Agile or Scrum. Both are intertwined with Japanese business concepts like kanzen, kanban, and obeya. And none of them are thought to work well with people hidden away in nice quiet offices. Quite the contrary! You need frequent huddles, story meetings, standups, and other face to face activities best done in open spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/29 "2019-11-19T10:15:52Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > It took my longer than I care to admit to realize this wasn’t about the Microsoft knock-off software, OpenOffice. Me too. I was going to tell everyone to migrate to LibreOffice. But I’m behind the OP. Cubes were bad enough the 15 months I was stuck in one. An open plan would be a nightmare. Give me an office with a door which I can close when I’m working or on the phone any time. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/30 "2019-11-19T10:20:02Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Is it 1985 where you work? Who follows the “Japanese way of doing business” in this day and age? > > Of course it works for Japan’s “salaryman” culture of mindless obedience to corporate tradition and authority. About 30 years ago I knew a senior engineer who refused a rotation in his companies - Fujitsu - main office because the place was open and he’d have to share a workstation. I visited the main office of a trading company who was partnering with us, and the work environment was like the middle seat in the back of an old DC-10 but not as roomy. No thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/31 "2019-11-19T12:12:11Z")
A lot of employees don’t feel like they can be fully open/honest with their managers, which means a lot of managers may not realize how miserable their employees are with various office layouts. I hope there are managers out there who are reading this thread and getting some fresh perspective on what does/doesn’t stimulate office morale and employee productivity. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/32 "2019-11-19T12:45:56Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Pretty much anyone using Agile or Scrum. Both are intertwined with Japanese business concepts like kanzen, kanban, and obeya. And none of them are thought to work well with people hidden away in nice quiet offices. Quite the contrary! You need frequent huddles, story meetings, standups, and other face to face activities best done in open spaces. All of this stuff was conceived for use on a factory floor where there are distinct roles and responsibilities and lines of production, and you can see the physical movement of work items. When that’s the case it’s good. When you thoughtlessly warehouse random people together expecting that new interactions will randomly emerge, that’s magical thinking and it’s garbage. Scrum and Agile are also garbage dumps that exist to be circled-around by certification-seeking middle managers who are always out to preside over new and exciting meetings. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/33 "2019-11-19T12:49:45Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Now, something like advertising or marketing where you do a lot of brainstorming might do well to have an open office. Computer programming? I’m not so sure. Maybe during the initial phase when you’re working with flow charts and big ideas, but that’s what meeting rooms are for, right? There is a time where it can be valuable. I would say a small cross-functional team can benefit from maybe 2 hours a day “together time” including lunch, 1 hour a day meeting time without laptops, and 2 hours a day “do your own work in your own cubicle and ask for help if you need it” time, the remainder of 8 hours to be filled by “work quietly at your home to catch up or work on overhead”. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/34 "2019-11-19T13:30:00Z")
Software developer here for 18 years, I’ve had private offices, cubes, and open offices, although I mostly work from home now. Cubes are hands down the worst, coming in every day and staring at the same 3.5 gray felted walls – I’m sorry, it _is_ soul crushing. It was nice when I had my (shared) office but I found it hard to switch between that development environment and “working on my laptop wherever I am” when I traveled. I’ve slowly converted only to laptop development, no extra monitor – in fact I’m doing that right now at home right next to a 24" 4k monitor that I’m not using. Long story short – I like my company’s current open office layout. I sit down at a nice clean desk, a different one every time, flip open my laptops, and I feel like I can breath. Yeah, there’s noise, but most days I’m not calculating missile trajectories or anything that requires deep concentration. So there are some of us :), and we’re not all kids. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/35 "2019-11-19T13:49:22Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > A lot of employees don’t feel like they can be fully open/honest with their managers, which means a lot of managers may not realize how miserable their employees are with various office layouts. I hope there are managers out there who are reading this thread and getting some fresh perspective on what does/doesn’t stimulate office morale and employee productivity. Even if the managers agree with this, the bean counters will still point at the cost difference between real room offices and cubicles or \ open floors and say “No!” > [@steronz](#): > > Long story short – I like my company’s current open office layout. I sit down at a nice clean desk, a different one every time, flip open my laptops, and I feel like I can breath. Yeah, there’s noise, but most days I’m not calculating missile trajectories or anything that requires deep concentration. Glad it works for you, but I’m a technical writer with a lot of reference books that I use on the regular, and they are physical objects. I am not hauling 40+ lbs of books in and out of an office every day and I do need quiet to concentrate on what I’m doing. My coworker likes the open office situation we’re in right now; it works for him. It does \*not \*work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/36 "2019-11-19T14:03:08Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Even if the managers agree with this, the bean counters will still point at the cost difference between real room offices and cubicles or \ open floors and say “No!” I wonder how the math works out when employee productivity and turnover rates are considered. ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/37 "2019-11-19T14:26:27Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > I wonder how the math works out when employee productivity and turnover rates are considered. I might be just very cynical but I don’t think anybody is doing any math on this. I’ve been hearing complaints about open office layouts since the beginning, so what… ten years now? And they’ve only become more common. Combine this with the interesting threads on reddit about how many people do little to no work all day every day at their butts-in-seats offices, and I really am convinced that employers just can’t see/measure productivity. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/38 "2019-11-19T14:45:37Z")
I have a friend who owns an office furniture company. According to him a ton of companies ripped out their cubicles starting around 10 years ago and now 1/2 of them are putting them back at considerable expense. The only trend that seems to be continuous is stand up desks. He sells almost exclusively those electronic adjustable sit/stand desks. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/39 "2019-11-19T14:56:06Z")
But people have been complaining about cubicles since they were invented. It’s a boomer trope. What’s the alternative? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2019, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518/40 "2019-11-19T14:58:30Z")
Am I the only one who thought this thread was going to be about the open-source alternative to Microsoft Office? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-open-office-hate-thread/843518.md?page=3)