# The opening chord to O Fortuna **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [April 5, 2023, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179 "2023-04-05T05:53:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/1 "2023-04-05T05:53:31Z")
If reading this thread you think I have no knowledge of music theory then you’d be right. Simply asked, what is the opening chord to Carol Orff’s O Fortuna. Here is the [symphony sheet music](http://boldandbeautifulmusic.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/7/0/29705073/1402472225.jpg) which I can’t read with all of the instruments. A few sites seem to agree that it is D minor add 2. On site said it is the second inversion and as OF is written in D minor - is that the same thing? Is the opening chord a Dm add2 or whatever the notation would be? So let’s assume it is a D minor add 2. What would it the best simple representation of it? On a piano staff? Something else since it is a chord played by the whole symphony? What notes would it be? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/2 "2023-04-05T10:14:11Z")
Overall it’s not a second inversion because the bass parts are playing a D, so “D minor add 2” (D, F, A, E) is a reasonable description. The choral parts alone are a first inversion chord, with the F in the bass at the start. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/3 "2023-04-05T12:53:15Z")
Gopher tuna Bring more tuna Statue of big dog with fleas ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/4 "2023-04-05T13:22:40Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The choral parts alone are a first inversion chord, with the F in the bass at the start. Please explain further. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/5 "2023-04-05T13:46:20Z")
So your basic chord is a triad: the root note, a third (major or minor) above it, and a fifth above the root. In a D minor chord, that’s D-F-A (the piece is in the key of D minor). If the lowest note in the chord as written is the root, it’s in root position. If the lowest note is the third, it’s first inversion. If it’s the fifth, it’s second inversion. As in the second cartoon here: [![](https://64.media.tumblr.com/cea96dcab77a52cda96ab555a389542c/tumblr_oin56iadUO1rte3swo1_1280.pnj) ](https://64.media.tumblr.com/cea96dcab77a52cda96ab555a389542c/tumblr_oin56iadUO1rte3swo1_1280.pnj) The first notes of the choral parts are F in the bass, D and E in the tenor, F in the alto and D/E in the sopranos (there’s no A in the choir but it’s in some of the orchestral parts). The E is a deliberately dissonant note and not part of the normal chord spelling. Does that help? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/6 "2023-04-05T13:55:16Z")
Somewhat. I know enough about music theory to parse out most of it. So getting back to the opening chord, what would be the best way to write it simply? What clef? What notes? I know that middle C on a piano is on the treble clef written one line (not space) below the clef so the bottom line is really an E two notes above it. But would the chord _for that song_ be better represented on [a bass or alto clef](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clef)? Looking at the first picture in my link, what notes best represent what **the symphony** plays? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/7 "2023-04-05T13:58:53Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Overall it’s not a second inversion because the bass parts are playing a D, so “D minor add 2” (D, F, A, E) is a reasonable description. If I were picking it out on the piano from ear, I’d do octave Ds in the left hand basement with a full A minor chord (1st inversion 4 note chord, d-a-c-e) superimposed in the right hand. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/8 "2023-04-05T14:01:41Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > If I were picking it out on the piano from ear, I’d do octave Ds in the left hand basement with a full A minor chord (1st inversion 4 note chord, d-a-c-e) superimposed in the right hand. And if you explained that to a 5 year old? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/9 "2023-04-05T14:02:32Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > If I were picking it out on the piano from ear, I’d do octave Ds in the left hand basement with a full A minor chord (1st inversion 4 note chord, d-a-c-e) superimposed in the right hand. Don’t think there’s a C in the first chord. I’d do the octave Ds in the left, f-a-d-e in the right. Also easily to play than d-a-c-e. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > And if you explained that to a 5 year old? A five-year-old ain’t going to be able to reach that wide with either hand. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/10 "2023-04-05T14:03:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > on’t think there’s a C in the first chord. Like I said, just picking it out by ear not cheating by peeking at the sheet music 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/11 "2023-04-05T14:04:46Z")
Very important it is as sheet-musical as possible but condensed down to one chord. Hence the question of what octave would best represent it. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/12 "2023-04-05T14:06:16Z")
I’d go with the first inversion chord with added E: F-A-D-E. Played loudly. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/13 "2023-04-05T14:07:50Z")
And what octave? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/14 "2023-04-05T14:09:45Z")
Eh. Just go for the middle of the piano. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/15 "2023-04-05T14:19:52Z")
If I use the alto clef, how would I show the flat to make it D minor. Or is that impossible? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Just go for the middle of the piano. F3 A3 D4 E4? Looking up Dm add 2 it seems the notes would be D3 E3 F3 A3. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/16 "2023-04-05T14:21:53Z")
That, or down an octave. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/17 "2023-04-05T14:44:07Z")
I was looking at the symphony sheet music. IF I am reading it correctly, it looks like only three notes are played on that opening chord among all instruments, the lowest three Ds. D1, D2, D3. Does that even remotely make sense? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/18 "2023-04-05T17:43:03Z")
I can analyse the sound file if you want, but this scan > **[Carmina Burana : Carl Orff : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet...](https://archive.org/details/CarminaBuranaCarlOrff_201905/Carmina%20Burana%20-%20Carl%20Orff%20%28partitura%20completa%29/page/n7/mode/2up)** > > Carmina Burana vocal and complete scores even includes a handwritten score, which I find difficult to make out, but the printed version is alongside it. Is a D really nonsensical? It is held for a beat, during which the chorus comes in with a F–D–E–F or whatever it is. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/19 "2023-04-05T17:46:51Z")
Yeah, I’m trying to figure out what is being described. There are a bunch of simultaneous Ds and a tympani hit (also tuned to D) before the full chord in “O” of “O Fortuna” comes in. That reflects what I hear. ETA: And I’ve never noted that notation before: the time signature is above the top staff as 3/(whole note symbol), so three whole notes/semibreves to the bar. Which I guess would be the equivalent of 3/1, before it switches a few bars later to 3/(half note symbol), or 3/2. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179/20 "2023-04-05T18:31:38Z")
All those D’s must be a subtle clue the first chord is, indeed, some kind of D (minor) chord… or does that not make sense/too obvious? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-chord-to-o-fortuna/982179.md?page=2)