# The opening space-battle scene cut from The Mote in God's Eye **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 14, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224 "2015-09-14T17:40:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/1 "2015-09-14T17:40:44Z")
Just found this - cut from Niven and Pournelle’s 1974 first-contact classic, and worth a read now, if you liked the book. Colvin, you may recall, appears in the closing pages of the novel, having later accepted Imperial rule as probably being for the best: [http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0671741926/0671741926.htm](http://www.webscription.net/chapters/0671741926/0671741926.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/2 "2015-09-14T17:52:56Z")
Quite a bit of the original first draft was cut and changed according to the eighty pages of notes written in Heinlein’s critique. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/3 "2015-09-14T18:08:16Z")
Interesting. The part about Horst & the bomb gets mentioned later in the book. I didn’t remember Colvin showing up again, but you’re right, he’s the captain of the Defiant in the Crazy Eddy Squadron. Doesn’t mention that he was a reformed rebel, apart from a sentence that he and his wife would never agree on politics. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/4 "2015-09-14T22:03:14Z")
Thanks for the excerpt . Anyone know where I can see Heinlein’s critique ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/5 "2015-09-14T23:39:27Z")
I’ve read this before; it was printed as a stand-alone short story in one of Pournelle’s anthology-series, either _There Will Be War_ or _Imperial Stars._ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/6 "2015-09-15T17:18:13Z")
Thanks for that. I’m not sure it adds anything to the novel, but it was an enjoyable read. Now I want to read the battle from MacArthur’s POV. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/7 "2015-09-15T17:28:17Z")
Thanks; I didn’t know that, **BrainGlutton**. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/8 "2015-09-15T17:35:38Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Anyone know where I can see Heinlein’s critique ? There is/was/may be a book of Heinlein’s unpublished nonfiction that contains/will contain it. I lost track of the project after the editor died. It may also be available as a PDF download from the Heinlein Archives. Not sure if it’s still on the restricted list or not. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/9 "2015-09-15T19:10:53Z")
thanks for posting that. What I remember most vividly about the Mote In God’s Eye was just how fricking DANGEROUS the Moties were. The vivid conflict between Imperial Sparta and New Chicago … er, Union … adds a nice contrast, I think … shows how fragile Imperial Sparta’s empire might be. So the battle might have been better left in. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/10 "2015-09-15T19:29:13Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Thanks for the excerpt . > > Anyone know where I can see Heinlein’s critique ? There’s a link to the letter in this article [The Mote in God's Eye - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God's_Eye) and a discussion by Niven of one of Heinlein’s criticisms here [http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml](http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/11 "2015-09-15T19:43:04Z")
Fyunch\* ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/12 "2015-09-15T19:50:49Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > There’s a link to the letter in this article [The Mote in God's Eye - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God's_Eye) and a discussion by Niven of one of Heinlein’s criticisms here [http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml](http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml) Wow. It looks like they took all of his advice too - cut out the New Scotland war (it’s a short story in N-Space now, IIRC), had Blaine refuse Kutuzov’s order to leave the MacArthur while his men were still aboard, gave Blaine a deceased older brother, timeline & dramatis personae, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/13 "2015-09-15T19:52:50Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > There’s a link to the letter in this article… I am not sure that’s online legitimately, as part of the extended set of material published as the “Virginia Edition.” This is also not the complete critique, but appears to be an associated or prequel letter. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/14 "2015-09-15T20:10:13Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > There’s a link to the letter in this article [The Mote in God's Eye - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mote_in_God's_Eye) and a discussion by Niven of one of Heinlein’s criticisms here [http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml](http://www.larryniven.net/stories/words.shtml) Thanks very much! Fascinating. (The 1973 Heinlein letter is the second link under the Wiki article’s “References” heading, for those who couldn’t find it). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/15 "2015-09-15T20:15:42Z")
Here’s the Adm. Ahroon about whom Heinlein wrote, BTW, [RADM Thomas Andrew Ahroon (1907-1972) - Find a Grave Memorial](http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=34339576), and his ship, [USS Lexington (CV-16) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Lexington_(CV-16)). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/16 "2015-09-15T20:33:15Z")
> [@BMalion](#): > > Fyunch\* Click! ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/17 "2015-09-15T21:12:31Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > Click! Crazy Eddie! You’re all Crazy Eddie! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/18 "2015-09-15T22:25:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I’ve read this before; it was printed as a stand-alone short story in one of Pournelle’s anthology-series, either _There Will Be War_ or _Imperial Stars._ _There Will Be War, Vol. One_, to be precise. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/19 "2015-09-15T22:32:54Z")
Thanks to all, particularly \*\* Andy L\*\* and \*\* Amateur Barbarian \*\*. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2015, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224/20 "2015-09-15T22:35:32Z")
\*\* Elendil’s Heir \*\* too ! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opening-space-battle-scene-cut-from-the-mote-in-gods-eye/731224.md?page=2)