# The opposite of Deus ex Machina... Stories with no real ending (spoilers obviously) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 14, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559 "2003-09-14T13:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Earl\_of\_the\_CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_of_the_CC)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/1 "2003-09-14T13:36:37Z")
Well, in the other thread on Deus ex Machina, I tried to think of a few examples I’ve read or seen. I couldn’t though, because whenever I think of bad or annoying endings, I am always taken back to **A Painted House** by John Grisham. He had a whole bunch of interesting plot lines and characters and then… that’s it. The family just moves away with all these conflicts left where they are. It’s not Deus ex, cause nothing is resolved. It’s just… nothing at all. Great way to ruin a book by Grisham. So, got any to add? ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/2 "2003-09-14T15:28:40Z")
Spike Lee’s **School Daze.** Lee’s running around the campus yelling “Wake up, everybody!”, then turns to the camera and says “Please, wake up.” Credit crawl, lights come on. Did he just run out of money or what? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/3 "2003-09-14T16:05:48Z")
I liked **a painted house**. No real conclusions, just moving on in life. Just like real life. How about “Monty Python and the Holy Grail” for a real lack of closure? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/4 "2003-09-14T17:27:14Z")
Just about anything by John Fowles, who seems to like ending novels abruptly at critical decision points. (Though in _The French Lieutenant’s Woman_, he did at least go to the trouble of providing two alternative endings.) ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/5 "2003-09-14T17:28:03Z")
Daphne du Maurier’s short story “The Birds” has no conclusions, none whatsoever, which is one thing that makes it so scary (IMHO.) Hitchcock did a good job of ending his film version ambiguously, as well – much harder to end a film with no “conclusions” than a book or story, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/6 "2003-09-14T17:33:36Z")
Do cliffhangers count? Stupid cliffhangers. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/7 "2003-09-14T19:30:53Z")
How about Schubert’s Unfinished Symphony ? ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/8 "2003-09-14T22:46:28Z")
Do the various slasher/thriller movies where the villian is implied if not shown to be still alive count? ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/9 "2003-09-14T23:30:18Z")
Pretty much everything Chaucer ever wrote (well, okay, individual Canterbury Tales don’t count) – see especially _Troilus and Criseyde, The Book of the Duchess,_ and _The Parliament of Fowls. The House of Fame_ is literally unfinished, but it ends on a heck of a line… ---
**Author:** ![skeptic\_ev](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@skeptic\_ev](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skeptic_ev)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/10 "2003-09-15T00:26:21Z")
_The Handmaid’s Tale_ by Margaret Atwood. I’m thinking of writing a sequel just so I can find out what happened to Offred (and Luke, and their little girl, and Nick, and Moira). ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/11 "2003-09-15T11:52:03Z")
Early 1970s Monte Hellman movie Two-Lane Blacktop, which is about people driving randomly and racing cars, ends with the film in the projector apparently catching fire, leaving the central characters to drive on. Very much of its time. An absolutely brilliant example is John Sayles’ Limbo, a film which has themes of storytelling, making up endings, and the indeterminacy of the future. It’s fitting therefore that it ends in a highly uncertain way: The heroes are stranded in a remote part of Alaska. They’ve been spotted by a plane being used for criminal purposes, and when it returns they don’t know if it’s coming to rescue them or kill them. The film ends as the plane approaches. ---
**Author:** ![MetalDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecb155/32.png) [@MetalDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MetalDog)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/12 "2003-09-15T12:20:24Z")
When I read the subject line, **A Painted House** was the first thing that leapt to mind. If the whole story had focused on the mother it /might/ have done as an ending, but it didn’t and it wasn’t. First Grisham I ever read (I’m not into the lawyer scene so I picked that one) - put me right off reading anything else of his. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/13 "2003-09-15T14:08:14Z")
I don’t think this is necessarily a bad thing. I like books that just ‘go on with life.’ **Snow Crash** (by Neil Stephenson) is one good example; people often bitch about the ending, but I thought it was just fine. I like it, actually. ---
**Author:** ![aleong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4af34b/32.png) [@aleong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aleong)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/14 "2003-09-15T15:36:46Z")
The first Jeepers Creepers felt incomplete… it just dropkicks the audience at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Roches](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bc8723/32.png) [@Roches](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roches)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2003, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/15 "2003-09-15T20:19:25Z")
I don’t think no ending is really the _opposite_ of _deus ex machina_. The opposite would be more like a complete ending that doesn’t involve a sudden, divine-intervention style conclusion – that is, most plots that aren’t _deus ex machina_. Still, I can think of a few plots that don’t have complete endings that explain the fates of all the important characters. They seem to all be dark, depressing stories. _The Handmaid’s Tale_ would fall into this category. The examples I can think of are _The Day After_, _1984_ and _The Grapes of Wrath_. All of these have very clear, very powerful endings, but the endings leave the reader/viewer wondering what will happen to the characters. The endings are touching, but they do not seem to be sufficient conclusions to the plots. It’s made clear in at least the first two that the characters do not live happily ever after. _1984_ is fairly clear about Winston’s fate, but the reader cannot be sure of it, or even if the world continues to be dominated by the three communist states that have subjugated it. _The Day After_ is much less clear about what will ultimately happen to the survivors of nuclear war. There are some scenes that suggest rebuilding is underway, and even that the US government is intact. But we know that no one is “out there”, and the fate of the survivors is very unclear. _The Grapes of Wrath_ has one of the most touching and symbolic endings in American literature, but it doesn’t establish conclusively what happens to the Joads. We know that California is not the golden promised land they expected it to be, and that it has been difficult there. But the story seems to occur in 1938, and, historically, a lot of things are about to happen. I don’t think it’s really possible, given the style of the book, to comment more on what happens in the long term, nor can Steinbeck have really known what would happen in the long term – the book was written in 1939. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/16 "2003-09-25T17:36:41Z")
The books I’ve read by Cecelia Holland, _The Death of Attila_ and _Jerusalem_, are like that. The simply stop without any true resolution. To some extent, this is to be expected of historical novels. Because real life doesn’t happen in short, clean episodes. As someone once wrote, “God writes lousy drama.” ---
**Author:** ![dalovindj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@dalovindj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalovindj)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/17 "2003-09-25T19:36:11Z")
I also think “the opposite of Deus ex Machina” is not really an unresolved or ambiguous ending, but rather a story where the resolution (or a twist - not neccesarily at the end) is achieved by a method which is not an unexpected, artificial, or improbable device. Like say a guy has a gun and uses it to kill the bad guy. We knew about the gun, we knew he had it, so using it is reasonable (opposite of DeM). If, however, our hero never had a gun, but one suddenly drops from the sky, or a meteor hits the bad guy, it is improbable and unrelated to what has been established. I happen to think that the discussion about movies/literature with ambiguous endings is a better discussion, so I’ll go that way with this post. How about [The Lady, or the Tiger](http://www.pagebypagebooks.com/Frank_R_Stockton/The_Lady_or_the_Tiger/The_Lady_or_the_Tiger_p1.html). This one has always killed me. Talk about leaving you hanging. Did the Princess let him die so no one else could have him, or let him live his days out with some other hottie? The final line leaves you hanging like a traitor: > [@](#): > > The question of her decision is one not to be lightly considered, and it is not for me to presume to set myself up as the one person able to answer it. And so I leave it with all of you: Which came out of the opened door,–the lady, or the tiger? I really was frustrated by this when I read it in high school. I’m not really a fan of “Or is it!!!” endings that leave you hanging. At the time I actually hated it. I was of the opinion that a writer lacks balls when he refuses to commit to a resolution. “I can’t come up with a proper ending, so I’ll leave it up to YOU and I’ll seem all artsy and mysterious.” I’ve since grown to appreciate the art of leaving it to the audiences imagination to decide, ala “What’s in the briefcase in Pulp Fiction?” - QT’s answer: “Whatever you want it to be.” I can see that making the reader/viewer think, analyze, and pay attention is a fun game. Still, if there must be plot arcs whose resolutions are ambiguous (i.e. the writer chooses to not let you know openly), I so much prefer that there ACTUALLY IS A CORRECT ANSWER! Even if I have to dig for it (like Memento - he is Sammy; Total Recall - it is a dream) I want there to be an answer dammit. I can’t stand movies like **Lost Highway** where the point is there is no point. It seems like maybe you could make sense of it if you try hard enough, but in the end I suspect sometimes even the creators have no answers themselves. Commit. Don’t be afraid to make a decision. Confusion for confusion’s sake bores and frustrates me. A couple other good examples of ambiguous endings: **Once upon a time in America** At the end James Woods character appears to hop into a garbage truck killing himself. You can’t quite tell if it is reallly him though. Then the last scene is what we saw in the first scene: A young De Niro in an Opium den. At the end the camera focuses on his smiling face and the camera pulls back. Two possibilities: 1. Woods did or didn’t kill himself - we’ll never know. 2. The whole of the movie that takes place after the Opium den (chronologically - the movie is played out of order in the proper cut) is really just a drug induced nightmare. That’s fun stuff, and I think Sergio Leone had a definite answer. I think it was a dream. **Unfaithful** Does Gere turn himself in? The movie ends with the truck outside of the cop station at a red light. It turns green, and then red again, and then the credits role. I hear they filmed a definitive ending, but decided it was better to leave you wondering. At least there IS an answer, even if I have to use my detective skills to come to a conclusion. DaLovin’ Dj ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/18 "2003-09-25T19:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > **Roches:** The examples I can think of are The Day After, 1984 […] the endings leave the reader/viewer wondering what will happen to the characters […] they do not seem to be sufficient conclusions to the plots. 1984 is fairly clear about Winston’s fate, but the reader cannot be sure of it, or even if the world continues to be dominated by the three communist states that have subjugated it. I have to disagree with this description of _1984_, which seems pretty well and grimly resolved to me. About the only question mark hanging over Winston’s fate is whether the Party will one day put a bullet through his brain when he least suspects it, or will let him live as is. We’re certainly left with the strong impression that Winston has “got religion”. He now loves Big Brother. He no longer has the strength or desire to resist the State. He has been completely broken. I suppose you could argue that Winston, having rebelled once, might one day work up the gumption to rebel again. But Orwell doesn’t offer any such hope in the final scene, or so it seems to me anyway. As to the future of the _1984_ world beyond the end of the book, there is an expository monologue given by O’Brien (the Party adminstrator who oversees Winston’s torture) in which he explains exactly how the Party will stay in power indefinitely. He and Winston debate the future, Winston arguing that the _proles_ will eventually revolt. But O’Brien argues persuasively to Winston that they’ll never do this. (Your basic “bread and circuses” argument, if I remember right.) All Winston can finally assert is that “something” will defeat the State, even if he can’t think of what that something would be. We are also given the impression (I think) that the other two superstates in _1984_ are ruthlessly totalitarian just like Oceania. However, we never spend any time in them, so maybe we’re not meant to know what the rest of the world is like, just like Winston doesn’t know. But O’Brien, in the rationale he gives to Winston, says that keeping Oceania in a perpetual state of war against one superstate or the other is one of the Party’s methods for keeping ordinary people distracted and focussed on an external enemy. One presumes then that the other two states are exercising the same strategy for the same cynical reasons. Personally I don’t believe that the world of _1984_ would be workable or sustainable. Maybe even Orwell didn’t believe this; the whole scenario does seem a bit over the top. But obviously the novel is meant to be a warning against the horrible things that _can_ happen, and certainly did happen in Stalin’s Soviet Union — one of Orwell’s favorite subjects. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/19 "2003-09-25T19:56:41Z")
The movie Time Bandits? What the hell happened there? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559/20 "2003-09-25T20:59:38Z")
Personally, I always thought that the fact that O’Brien is apparently going a little insane offers just a sliver of hope that the whole deck of cards might go out one day. That’s likely just wishful thinking, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposite-of-deus-ex-machina-stories-with-no-real-ending-spoilers-obviously/201559.md?page=2)