# The opposition to DST **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 29, 2000, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838 "2000-02-29T07:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/1 "2000-02-29T07:31:00Z")
[http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5\_052.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_052.html) When Daylight Savings Time was first introduced in Michigan, its most outspoken opponents were the drive-in theater owners. Since movies would be starting an hour later during the summer, their peak season, they felt that they’d lose too many customers who had to work in the morning. It was a very controversial issue at first: voters alternately approved and defeated DST by very narrow margins. The gas shortages of 1973-74 made DST permanent, and the drive-ins never recovered. Even Joe Bob Briggs eventually switched to videos. (This is not to imply that DST was the only reason for the decline of the drive-in, but it was a factor.) Rather than change clocks when DST comes around, the portion of Indiana that’s in the Eastern Time Zone switches over to Central Time. Arizona refuses to incorporate DST because their summer days are hot enough without it. * * * “A lot of Christians wear crosses around their necks. You think when Jesus comes back, he ever wants to see a cross?” – [Bill Hicks](http://www.billhicks.com/darktimes/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/2 "2000-03-01T06:01:00Z")
In his column, Cecil says > [@](#): > > You want to line up the hours of daylight with the hours most people are up and about. That way they’ll use the lights less and we’ll waste less oil, coal, etc. and John Rush says > [@](#): > > The gas shortages of 1973-74 made DST permanent, and the drive-ins never recovered. Call me dense, but I don’t see how Daylight Savings Time can have a big difference on oil consumption. Who uses petroleum lamps? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/3 "2000-03-01T06:03:00Z")
Wait, I got it. :o It’s the power source behind the electricity that might use coal, oil, etc… OK I’ll go hide now. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_Allison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9d8465/32.png) [@Tim\_Allison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_Allison)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/4 "2000-03-01T06:56:00Z")
Am I allowed a small diatribe on DST? I hate DST. I am a morning runner in CO. Just when it gets light early enough to see the trails, we set the clocks back so that is dark. (Why don’t I run later in the day? Well, I’ve got this job see…) It also means my (5) young kids go to bed later, and they stay up late enough as it is. They don’t seen any point in getting ready for bed until its dark, which is waaay too late. Without DST, they would get up earlier, but why do I care? I’m out running. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/5 "2000-02-29T19:23:00Z")
Welcome to our little community, **Tim**. I just want to comment on farmers complaining about DST. My Dad was a farmer and he didn’t complain about that. He had more important stuff to worry about. He simply ignored the clock and got up when it was nearly daylight and quit when it was too dark to see. We had a television, but he was not the kind of guy to complain about missing a TV show. (Except for the weather reports, which are VERY important to farmers, naturally. But if he missed the 6PM report, he’d just make sure he’d see the one at 10PM. [We lived in the Central Time Zone. The late news comes on at 10PM there, not 11PM.] And he’d watch the early-morning report.) Where in Colorado do you live, **Tim**? Dad took us to the southwest corner a lot, as well as Trinidad, Walsenberg, Salida, Leadville and Grand Junction. * * * \>\ \_ **L\_\_\_L** ---
**Author:** ![sendos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@sendos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sendos)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2000, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/6 "2000-02-29T21:55:00Z")
Quote: You want to line up the hours of daylight with the hours most people are up and about. That way they’ll use the lights less and we’ll waste less oil, coal, etc. Comment: Isn’t that BS? I mean, wherever I go these days, the lights are on ALL DAY in company offices. It doesn’t really matter if it is pitch dark outside or a very sunny day. ---
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/7 "2000-03-01T23:11:00Z")
Re: Arizona ## Resetting clocks should have no appreciable effect on the temperature. “The dawn of a new era is felt and not measured.” Walter Lord ---
**Author:** ![WillGolfForFood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/82dd89/32.png) [@WillGolfForFood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillGolfForFood)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2000, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/8 "2000-03-01T23:50:00Z")
When I was a kid, I thought that DST was akin to proof of the existence of God. The clocks were moved back so that the sun set an hour earlier _just_ before Halloween and Mischief night, and I and my buddies had a whole extra hour of darkness to soap up the neighbors’ windows… ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/9 "2000-03-02T08:15:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Beruang: > Re: Arizona > > Resetting clocks should have no appreciable effect on the temperature. Right, perhaps I should have worded it better: People coming off work in the afternoon during the summer don’t need an extra hour of searing desert heat. How’s that? ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2000, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/10 "2000-03-02T16:16:00Z")
ya know, I am skeptical of Cecil’s claim that fiddling with a clock has any appreciable effect on energy consumption. If this is true, there should be a measurable effect that could be demonstrated by comparing energy usage on the day before DST to the day after DST. Has this ever been documented? ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/11 "2000-03-10T06:59:00Z")
Wow… I know questioning Cecil’s wisdom is anathema to the teeming millions, but I didn’t expect such a deafening silence! All I am looking for is a little corroborating evidence that should be obtainable from any local power company. Does such evidence exist? ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/12 "2000-03-10T04:47:00Z")
Regarding energy consumption, the theory is that people working 8-5 will have the lights on for one hour less per evening. But any savings will probably be negated by having to run the air conditioner for an extra hour. ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2000, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/13 "2000-03-10T07:07:00Z")
Hardcore Well I for one will call tomorrow. Have you? Here’s a note (5 March 1997) that claims the country saved 30GWh by extending daylight savings three weeks: [http://journal.chilnet.cl/nws\_EP71.htm](http://journal.chilnet.cl/nws_EP71.htm) Have you seen this: [http://www.senate.gov/~dpc/crs/reports/ascii/98-99](http://www.senate.gov/~dpc/crs/reports/ascii/98-99) * * * rocks ---
**Author:** ![hardcore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@hardcore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardcore)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2000, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/14 "2000-03-11T21:20:00Z")
RM Mentock I have not called the power company yet. I guess I haven’t determined how to phrase the question without them laughing at me. Maybe I am just lazy. Did you make any calls? I am unsure what your stance is on the issue (or if you even have one). Are you skeptical also? Your links were interesting. The first is from Chile (I think) and only claims they _will_ save energy if they extend DST. The second one is more detailed and may support my view: > [@](#): > > DOT, charged with evaluating the plan of extending DST into March, reported in 1975 that ‘modest overall benefits might be realized by a shift from the historic six-month DST (May through October) in areas of energy conservation, overall traffic safety and reduced violent crime.’ However, DOT also reported that these benefits were minimal and difficult to distinguish from seasonal variations and fluctuations in energy prices. > Congress then asked the National Bureau of Standards (NBS) to evaluate the DOT report. NBS found no significant energy savings or differences in traffic fatalities. It did find, however, statistically significant evidence of increased fatalities among school-age children in the mornings during the test period, although it was impossible to determine if this was due to DST. This appears to indicate that the neither the DOT nor the NBS could find any energy savings due to DST. I am willing to accept Cecil’s claim of energy savings if someone can point to some hard data to support it. I really should get off my lazy ass and research this myself, but I honestly thought the evidence was readily available on the net somewhere and someone would point me to it right away. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2000, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/15 "2000-03-13T02:39:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It did find, however, statistically significant evidence of increased fatalities among school-age children in the mornings during the test period, although it was impossible to determine if this was due to DST. During this test period, we went to school when it was still dark outside, so it stands to reason that there would have been more fatalities among schoolkids. The “impossible to determine” clause sounds like some bureaucratic copout, since this was a government-mandated response to the gas shortages. ---
**Author:** ![Beruang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/77aa72/32.png) [@Beruang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beruang)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2000, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/16 "2000-03-16T06:12:00Z")
During the year-round DST of the gas shortage years, I was waking up at 6:00 a.m. to go to high school. And we could see just fine. (Mid-latitudes, Chicago to be exact.) I always felt that “increased accidents” was a line of bull. * * * “The dawn of a new era is felt and not measured.” Walter Lord ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/original/2X/e/e489c3b7d8fce19c4b355dd4fc3f88cc39c34b87.png) [@system](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2000, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/17 "2000-03-16T07:08:00Z")
Remember that Chicago is at the eastern edge of the Central Time Zone, while Michigan is about as far west as the Eastern Time Zone goes. 6:00 am in Michigan is the same as 5:00 in Chicago. Maybe it was sunup by the time you headed out, but we were walking to school in the dark for almost a month. ---
**Author:** ![Michael0916](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Michael0916](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael0916)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2000, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-opposition-to-dst/838/18 "2000-03-16T17:35:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by Beruang: > \*\*During the year-round DST of the gas shortage years, I was waking up at 6:00 a.m. to go to high school. And we could see just fine. (Mid-latitudes, Chicago to be exact.) I always felt that “increased accidents” was a line of bull. > \*\* ## You obviously don’t live anywheres near me here in Florida that’s for sure. Well when students had to get up an hour earlier in about one week we had about 6 kids get hit by cars. And the trend continued. Everyday one or two kids got nailed by a car. And then when we started getting up when the sun was out the accidents stopped. You’ll have to excuse me for not knowing too much about DST. I don’t even know if the start of DST is when we get up early or the end is when we get up early. If I thought about it I could probably figure it out but chances are I’d fall asleep trying. –Michael Or would you rather talk about monkeys?