# The Order of the Stick **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 12, 2007, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454 "2007-10-12T11:16:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/41 "2007-10-17T06:19:49Z")
Oh, and Thog? Is he really sentient enough to even have an alignment? He’s more of a happy-go-lucky blunt instrument that can sometimes be dangerous. Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/42 "2007-10-17T06:39:41Z")
Burlew has said in the FAQ or maybe somewhere else that he purposely doesn’t have levels for the characters. He justs keeps 'em weak enough for dramatic tension but strong enough that he doesn’t eliminate funky skills from the pool of possibilities. IOW, don’t try too hard to make them fit a certain level because there probably will be discrepancies. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/43 "2007-10-17T09:15:01Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Oh, and Thog? Is he really sentient enough to even have an alignment? He’s more of a happy-go-lucky blunt instrument that can sometimes be dangerous. Sometimes. [/QUOTE] Chaotic Stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/44 "2007-10-17T13:04:51Z")
[QUOTE=Balance] Best estimates suggest they’re around L12-13, based on the levels and numbers of spells used and lots of even more geeky analysis. [/QUOTE] Despite the vagueness of OotS levels, Belkar is probably lower level than the others – he’s chosen a _very_ poor multiclass scheme, since neither Rogue nor Barbarian are halfling favored classes. We know he’s Rgr 9/Brb 1 (he just picked up evasion), but that’s probably about it. Durkon, though, was casting a 7th-level spell (control weather) back in Cliffport, so he’s probably on the high side of 13th. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/45 "2007-10-17T14:03:42Z")
All this fighting about going up and down levels. Couldn’t somebody at TSR look it up in a thaursas? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/46 "2007-10-17T14:13:27Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] OK, I noticed and chuckled at this strip in Dragon, but it really seemed to get a lot better when I read the “main” storyline. Anyone knows if anyplace has the Dragon strips together? [/QUOTE] Rich Burlew had been planning to release them as a compendium, but with _Dragon_ folded there aren’t enough strips. He says he’ll think of something (I’m guessing a bonus section in some other volume). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/47 "2007-10-17T14:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=Balance] Individually, they were no threat to him. He killed one with every attack, and only about 1 in 20 of them even managed to scratch him. Their Challenge Rating is too low for him to get XP for the individual hobgoblins. The Encounter Rating, on the other hand, is evaluated as “Belkar vs. the hobgoblin army”. There’s a lot of funky math that relates the ER to the CR, but in the end, it means that Belkar will get XP for fighting the hobgoblins as a group, but not for individual kills. [/QUOTE] Remind me again what a Challenge Rating is and how it relates to experience? I played back in the old days when things had a set XP value. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/48 "2007-10-17T14:28:25Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Remind me again what a Challenge Rating is and how it relates to experience? I played back in the old days when things had a set XP value. [/QUOTE] In theory it’s listed as the difficulty of “an encounter”. It’s given a numerical valuation (from about 1/4 to 1/2 to 1, then in increments of +1 up to whatever). A “normal” challenge is about equal to the characters’ average level, and assumes you don’t get to heal, get new spells, etc, after every fight. This doesn’t always work in DnD, as parties will (wisely) game things to prepare as much as possible for every encounter. And things like puzzles or traps are supposed to be listed as “Encounters” with a challenge rating but this is gets pretty hazy. In this fight, are the hobgolbins considered to be one big encounter? Or a lot of little ones? How many? In short, it’s a very complicated way for the GM to justify giving you any amount of XP he feels like. But the reason is that back in the day, a smart group of orcs (oxymoron, i know) could actualy do some damage to a mid-level party. Maybe not a huge amount, but if they were cunning and whatnot they could inflict a lot more than they had any right to. These days they pretty much can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/49 "2007-10-17T16:21:59Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] Despite the vagueness of OotS levels, Belkar is probably lower level than the others – he’s chosen a _very_ poor multiclass scheme, since neither Rogue nor Barbarian are halfling favored classes. We know he’s Rgr 9/Brb 1 (he just picked up evasion), but that’s probably about it. Durkon, though, was casting a 7th-level spell (control weather) back in Cliffport, so he’s probably on the high side of 13th. [/QUOTE] Durkon cast Control Weather from a scroll, and the [class-and-level geekery thread](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912) puts Belkar at Ranger ≥11/Barbarian ≥1, based on Rich’s [analysis of the off-screen Miko fight](http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291639#post291639). Rich indicated that, at the time of the Order’s capture by Miko, Belkar had 11d8 + 1d12 + Con bonus for hit points. He just went several levels without _noticing_ that he had Evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/50 "2007-10-18T20:22:48Z")
[Awww.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html) _sniffle_ No, I do _not_ have something in my eye. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/51 "2007-10-18T20:48:26Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] [Awww.](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html) _sniffle_ No, I do _not_ have something in my eye. [/QUOTE] (spoilered, in case someone reads this before the comic) [spoiler]I was fully expecting a predictible joke with Roy talking to a favored childhood pet. \…well played, Giant…[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/52 "2007-10-18T20:58:21Z")
Damn…I didn’t check it this morning (his update schedule is slightly unpredictable) and now I’m misting up just before I have to leave my office to go home and pass in front of everyone to get to the door… ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/53 "2007-10-18T21:05:14Z")
Missed the edit window: Looks like baby bro made an appearance hiding behind mama’s chair in [this comic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/54 "2007-10-18T21:12:52Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] (spoilered, in case someone reads this before the comic) [spoiler]I was fully expecting a predictible joke with Roy talking to a favored childhood pet. \…well played, Giant…[/spoiler] [/QUOTE] I had to read it two or three times to make sure I wasn’t missing the joke. But there wasn’t one! Sincerity! Just when you least expect it! Burlew, you sly bastard! ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/55 "2007-10-18T21:41:16Z")
What I _thought_ was leading up to was Grandpa Greenhilt – which would’ve been nice, giving Roy a _real_ role-model to follow – But this was good. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/56 "2007-10-18T21:41:50Z")
Not only was it very touching, it was like getting run over by the backstory train. It explains so much about Roy’s character and his relationships with others. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/57 "2007-10-18T21:57:39Z")
And it raises/answers very interesting questions about what life is like in a world where resurrection magic is a fact of life. They already addressed some of it by requiring a fortune in diamonds to even try, but this adds to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/58 "2007-10-23T09:01:01Z")
[QUOTE=Lightray] What I _thought_ was leading up to was Grandpa Greenhilt – which would’ve been nice, giving Roy a _real_ role-model to follow – But this was good. [/QUOTE] Well, now you got both. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/59 "2007-10-23T13:18:20Z")
[QUOTE=Hal Briston] Missed the edit window: Looks like baby bro made an appearance hiding behind mama’s chair in [this comic](http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0113.html). [/QUOTE] Heh - I’d forgotten about that flashback - look at Young Roy - he had a 'fro! ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454/60 "2007-10-23T15:58:45Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Well, now you got both. [/QUOTE] 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-order-of-the-stick/422454.md?page=4)