# The original (but now disappeared) 13th amendment to the Constution. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 4, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912 "2004-11-04T03:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Road\_Rash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@Road\_Rash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Road_Rash)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/1 "2004-11-04T03:37:58Z")
I was doing an unrelated web surf when I came across this. Apparantly, according to a [couple](http://www.amendment-13.org/) [of](http://users.frii.com/gosplow/13th.html) [sites](http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/E/thirteen/disc13xx.htm), there was an amendment to the constitution that read: “If any citizen of the United States shall accept, claim, receive, or retain any title of nobility or honour, or shall without the consent of Congress, accept and retain any present, pension, office, or emolument of any kind whatever, from any emperor, king, prince, or foreign power, such person shall cease to be a citizen of the United States, and shall be incapable of holding any office of trust or profit under them, or either of them.” Supposedly, this was enacted in 1819, as a way to deter potential monarchist infiltration, or simply keep attorneys from holding office(?). It was quietly remover during civil war times. It was re-discovered by some folk reviewing very old documents back in the 1980’s. Granted, this amendment would be an obvious anachronism today, much like the housing soldiers amendment, but a few conspiracy theorists have used this to explain much broader incidents. What the hell is the straight dope on this? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/2 "2004-11-04T03:47:48Z")
I remembered – vaguely – reading about this in a discussion of unratified amendments. So I did a search. [Here](http://thirdamendment.com/missing.html) is a paper giving some background on it. Only twelve of seventeen states ratified it, an insufficient number. However, it was reprinted as part of the Constitution for some years thereafter, apparently in the expectation that it would eventually be ratified. This led some people to erroneously conclude that it had in fact been ratified. (See Dr. Silversmith’s discussion regarding it at the link.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/3 "2004-11-04T03:48:05Z")
The Titles of Nobility Amendment was proposed in 1810 but was never enacted into the Constitution. So it has no legal effect. However, the proposal has no expiration date so it could theoretically still be enacted if enough states voted in favor of it. The actual effects of this amendment would be minor. However, some people have declared that this amendment would have far reaching effects such as banning lawyers from holding office. These are often the same people who think the gold braid on a flag has a legal significance. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/4 "2004-11-04T03:50:48Z")
> [@Road Rash](#): > > I was doing an unrelated web surf when I came across this. Apparantly, according to a [couple](http://www.amendment-13.org/) [of](http://users.frii.com/gosplow/13th.html) [sites](http://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/E/thirteen/disc13xx.htm), there was an amendment to the constitution that read: > > What the hell is the straight dope on this? Your first two cites say that it is true. If your read your third cite carefully, you’ll see it says > [@](#): > > There is a very good refutation of Dodge’s claims published in : > > Jol. A. Silversmith,“The Missing Thirteenth Ammendment”: > Constitutional Nonsense and Titles of Nobility, > In: Southern California Interdisciplinary Law Journal, [Vol. 8:577 1999]. > > We wish we could publish it on this site, but we cannot because of copyrights. > > : I think this one is nonsense, but have at it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/5 "2004-11-04T03:53:51Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Your first two cites say that it is true. > > If your read your third cite carefully, you’ll see it says > > I think this one is nonsense, but have at it. My link above is to Dr. Silversmith’s article. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-but-now-disappeared-13th-amendment-to-the-constution/272912/6 "2004-11-04T04:51:48Z")
This issue got thrashed out in a thread last spring: [Use of “Esquire” Illegal?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=246479)