# The original Mary Poppins has had its {UK} rating raised over discriminatory language **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [February 27, 2024, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160 "2024-02-27T12:09:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/81 "2024-02-29T13:14:04Z")
Yeah, if you read Australian recipes, you’ll find that the word has been deprecated in favor of “makrut” for the most part. I’m not sure when this started happening, but it’s how I became aware of the problematic nomenclature, maybe around a decade or so ago. Like [here’s a typical recipe from an Australian recipe site](https://www.delicious.com.au/recipes/thai-style-beef-curry-recipe/ys8vxstp?r=recipes/collections/9bmjz8qs). Notice “makrut lime leaves” under the ingredients. I have seen that terminology used in the US, as well, but it’s not as common as in Australian and New Zealand sites yet. Though I did just check a random recipe on [Epicurious.com](http://Epicurious.com) and it did call for “makrut lime leaves.” Same with Serious Eats. So maybe US food nomenclature is catching up. Before, I only noticed recipes from Australasia favoring “makrut.” ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/82 "2024-02-29T13:16:05Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I think i have only ever heard it applied to limes, in the context of recipes. I hadn’t heard of the lime before now, but knew about the lily. > **[Kaffir Lily Plant Care & Growing Basics: Water, Light, Soil, Propagation...](https://myplantin.com/plant/141)** > > All You should know about Kaffir Lily Plant (Clivia miniata) \> how to care and characteristics 🌱 PlantIn 🌿 Our best expert are here for your plants! ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/83 "2024-02-29T13:48:26Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Oh wow, i had no idea. I think i have only ever heard it applied to limes, in the context of recipes. I picked up on it from, of all things, the film Lethal Weapon II back in 1989. It was the age of international sanctions on South Africa and ‘free Nelson Mandela’ while simultaneously being the era of glasnost with Gorbachev in the USSR. So some bright screenwriter thought “maybe instead of Russians we can use racist white South Africans as the perfect international villains!” So the word got slung around several times and I had to ask somebody what the obvious slur they were using actually meant. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/84 "2024-02-29T13:50:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure when this started happening, Possibly with the spike in South African immigration to Australia around 2010? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/85 "2024-02-29T14:08:03Z")
Yeah that would align with the general time period I started noticing it. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/86 "2024-02-29T14:14:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You know how I know that “barbarian” isn’t offensive nowadays? Because only white people are called barbarians. Non-white people are called “savages” - which _is_ offensive. That’s a fair point. Conan is a barbarian but it’s his _sword_ that’s savage. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/87 "2024-03-01T18:40:10Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > And maybe related… we used to have a sweet here called Eskimo Men… they’ve been renamed to Explorers. Similarly, the American chocolate-covered vanilla ice cream bars known to generations as Eskimo Pies are now Edy’s Pies, in honor of one of the manufacturer’s founders. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/88 "2024-03-01T19:06:20Z")
I hear about Eskimo-Aleut languages all the time, relatively speaking, but, when it comes to individual peoples and culture, the wisdom is not to mix up Yupik, Sirenik, Inuit, and (especially non-Eskimos like) Aleut, Chukchi et al as if they were all the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/89 "2024-03-02T00:43:36Z")
Worth noting is that the book _Mary Poppins_ originally had a god-awful chapter involving a compass, in which the children went to various parts of the world (say “East” and you go to China, “South” and you’re in Africa," etc.). The chapter was filled with nasty racist stereotypes, including an African Black woman who spoke in cringeworthy dialect. In the sixties or seventies, not sure when, the publisher told P. L. Travers that it was necessary to replace the chapter to remove the racist depictions (talking polar bears instead of the people of the Arctic, that kind of thing). Travers refused, saying that “the little black children” liked that part of the book the best (I’m _sure_ they did), but changed her mind when the publisher said they’d have to stop selling the book if she didn’t get with the program. Not to defend Disney for the Admiral Boom line, but the book chapter is appallingly awful and things could’ve been a heck of a lot worse. And since someone(s) referenced Oz, worth noting is that _Rinkitink in Oz_ mentions either a “Hottentot” or possibly a “Tottenhot,” I don’t recall for sure, which is described as being “somewhat lower than a man” and is accompanied by one of the most offensive illustrations John R. Neill ever drew. I’m not sure if this was ever changed. I considered doing it as a read-aloud for my elementary school class some years ago, but had forgotten the Tottenhot thing–when I saw the picture I said uh-uh. Too bad, as much of the book is actually quite good. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/90 "2024-03-02T01:12:41Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > Worth noting is that the book _Mary Poppins_ originally had a god-awful chapter involving a compass, in which the children went to various parts of the world (say “East” and you go to China, “South” and you’re in Africa," etc.). The Disney film was originally going to include a sequence based on this chapter, but it was scrapped. They ended up reusing two of the four songs the Sherman Brothers had written for it: “The Beautiful Briny” (in _Bedknobs and Broomsticks_) and “The Land of Sand” (as the melody for “Trust in Me” in _The Jungle Book_). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/91 "2024-03-02T01:17:12Z")
> [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](#): > > And since someone(s) referenced Oz, worth noting is that _Rinkitink in Oz_ mentions either a “Hottentot” or possibly a “Tottenhot,” I don’t recall for sure, which is described as being “somewhat lower than a man” and is accompanied by one of the most offensive illustrations John R. Neill ever drew. I’m not sure if this was ever changed. Since the book is readily available online ([Project Gutenberg](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/25581/25581-h/25581-h.htm)) I looked it up and found the part you’re talking about. > [@](#): > > First she transformed Bilbil the goat into a lamb, and this was done quite easily. Next she transformed the lamb into an ostrich, giving it two legs and feet instead of four. Then she tried to transform the ostrich into the original Prince Bobo, but this incantation was an utter failure. Glinda was not discouraged, however, but by a powerful spell transformed the ostrich into a tottenhot—which is a lower form of a man. Then the tottenhot was transformed into a mifket, which was a great step in advance and, finally, Glinda transformed the mifket into a handsome young man, tall and shapely, who fell on his knees before the great Sorceress and gratefully kissed her hand, admitting that he had now recovered his proper shape and was indeed Prince Bobo of Boboland. I have no idea whether there are alternate versions, but in this version, the word is indeed “tottenhot” and, interestingly, the tottenhot is the one creature mentioned who is _not_ pictured in the illustration. (The “mifket” _is_ pictured, and is humanoid but, as far as I can tell, is not intended to resemble any real-world humans.) IMHO there’s nothing there that crosses the line into actual racism, but it maybe comes too close to that line for modern sensibilities. In particular, one could plead that the idea of a “lower form of a man” could perfectly well exist in a fantasy world, but in our real world, it’s a racist concept. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/92 "2024-03-02T01:17:47Z")
I did not know that! Cool. Glad they scrapped it. Among other things, it would’ve made an already long movie even longer. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/93 "2024-03-02T01:30:20Z")
There was such an illustration in the original. You can see it here: > **[What Puts the Hot in Tottenhot?](https://vovat.livejournal.com/649171.html)** > > Despite the time in which they were written, the Oz books are relatively free from cringe-worthy racial stereotypes. Well, except for The Woggle-Bug Book , but that doesn't really count, does it? One exception is in The Patchwork Girl of Oz , which... (It’s perhaps not quite as awful as I recalled, but it’s still pretty bad) There’s a discussion about the removal of the picture in the Oz wiki: “More recently, Books of Wonder and their publishing partners have been criticized by some for altering two of its reprints of Baum’s books. The original versions contained depictions that were seen as amusing in Baum’s day, but the times have changed, and they are now seen as offensive African or African-American stereotypes. In _The Patchwork Girl of Oz_ , there is a living phonograph that plays a song that originally contained the line, “Ah wants mah Lulu, mah coal-black Lulu;” this was changed to, “Ah want my Lulu, mah cross-eyed Lulu” by Books of Wonder. A later, similar line not only kept the change from coal-black to cross-eyed, it changes loves to the more grammatically correct love. Later in the same book, the travelers meet a band of people called Tottenhots, an obvious play on the Hottentot peoples of South Africa. Some references to these people’s dusky skin color and other aspects of their appearance were edited or removed, and one picture of a Tottenhot was not included. In _Rinkitink in Oz_ , another picture of a Tottenhot was removed. Both pictures unflatteringly showed the Tottenhots as stereotypical “savage” Africans.” [https://thewizardofoz.info/wiki/About\_the\_Oz\_Books](https://thewizardofoz.info/wiki/About_the_Oz_Books) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/94 "2024-03-02T01:35:36Z")
Thanks. So the version on Project Gutenberg _did_ have the offending illustration removed. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160/95 "2024-03-02T01:38:54Z")
Apparently so! I was a bit surprised at first, because the Gutenberg version _looks_ original, but I was sure I did not have a false memory of the image… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-mary-poppins-has-had-its-uk-rating-raised-over-discriminatory-language/998160.md?page=4)