# The original X-Men vs. the Silver Age Legion of Super-Heroes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 19, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780 "2011-09-19T02:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/81 "2011-09-21T19:42:32Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > Friendly amendment: Mon-El and Brainiac-5 beat the original X-Men in a walkover. Dampening telepathic powers is a specialty of Brainy’s. The non-Kryptonite vulnerable Mon-El takes care of the rest. Actually, Mon-El is potentially more in danger here on Earth than the Supers ever would be. He’s fatally allergic to LEAD, which is downright ubiquitous here compared to kryptonite. Even with the cumulative mountain of kryptonite that’s ended up on Earth through the years, it’s got to be exponentially easier to acquire enough lead to incapacitate Mon-El. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/82 "2011-09-21T19:52:48Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Actually, Mon-El is potentially more in danger here on Earth than the Supers ever would be. He’s fatally allergic to LEAD, which is downright ubiquitous here compared to kryptonite. Even with the cumulative mountain of kryptonite that’s ended up on Earth through the years, it’s got to be exponentially easier to acquire enough lead to incapacitate Mon-El. He has the serum that protects him. No reason to think it’s suddenly worn off. > [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Or Blok. Or Wildfire. Might not go through Brainy’s shield. Not sure I’ve ever seen Iceman do such a thing in any case. I’m sure it won’t go through Brainy’s shield. He’s not unacquainted with people who can cast cold, and though he’s not Batman he’d still be prepared. “Honestly,” (as that has any meaning in such an essentially silly discussion), the X-Men have a chance only if one of two conditions is met: 1. Xavier is with them and prepared to be more ruthless with his powers than normal; or 2. Jean or Rachel is in Phoenix mode. And frankly, condition 2 will make the mutants nervous anyway. The Legion’s just too powerful. Oh, Cosmic Boy will fall early, as the X-Men are specifically trained to deal with someone having a greater version of his powerset. Invisible Kid and a few of the underpowered girls might get hurt; Storm and Rogue will definitely inflict some damage. But it’ll still be one-sided. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/83 "2011-09-21T20:05:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > He has the serum that protects him. No reason to think it’s suddenly worn off. If he remembers to take it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/84 "2011-09-21T20:13:00Z")
Y’know, it’s an interesting comparison between the power levels of the Marvel and DC universes. Most of Marvel’s characters are either on the city scale (like Spider-Man, Iron Man, or the X-Men), or on the cosmic scale (Phoenix, Galactus, the Beyonder, the Eternals, the Living Tribunal), with very little in between. DC’s characters, though, seem to be mostly on the planetary scale (Superman and all his kin, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter), with very little above or below. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/85 "2011-09-21T20:15:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If he remembers to take it. He’ll no more forget to take it than I’ll forget to put on my glasses. And for most of the Legion’s history he could go long periods between doses anyway. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/86 "2011-09-21T20:25:17Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Xavier is with them and prepared to be more ruthless with his powers than normal; or > 2. Jean or Rachel is in Phoenix mode. Not sure about either of these conditions, Skald. If we go outside the Silver Age Legion vs. the original X-Men, then the Levitz-era Saturn Girl is a match for Xavier. After all, she defeated Universo pretty much by herself. I think Phoenix gives the X-Men a chance, but remember the Legion is used to dealing with powerful foes. The Legionnaires have fought Controllers, the Time Trapper, Mordru, Darkseid, the Levitz-era Legion of Super-Villains, Omen, Sun-Eaters, etc. Also if we’re talking about the Levitz-era Legion, then all of the Legionnaires are superb at hand-to-hand combat unless they have the power to knock down buildings. Phantom Girl is as good as the Vision at close range, which means she should be able to take out just about any X-Men. The Legion is just too powerful and numerous. Whoops, I think I hear the Nerd Police knocking down the door. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/87 "2011-09-21T20:31:08Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > If he remembers to take it. If we are talking about the 60s Mon-El, then that would be a factor. By the 70s (when I started reading) they had pretty much removed that crutch by making the serum permanent. I guess they realized what a foolish limitation that was. If you want a fair fight, you need to pit the original X-Men against the original Legion of Substitute Heroes: Polar Boy, Night Girl, Chlorophyll Kid, Stone Boy, Fire Lad, and Color Kid. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/88 "2011-09-21T20:39:13Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I think Phoenix gives the X-Men a chance, but remember the Legion is used to dealing with powerful foes. The Legionnaires have fought Controllers, the Time Trapper, Mordru, Darkseid, the Levitz-era Legion of Super-Villains, Omen, Sun-Eaters, etc. Mordru was usually beaten because he has a fatal flaw. Without that, the Legion could barely slow him down (at least into the late 80s / early 90s). If we compare Darkseid and Phoenix, remember that Darkseid was defeated only when his army of Daxamites was released from his control (and were a little pissed at being made to terraform Daxam into Darkseid’s likeness). Even then, he wasn’t really defeated, he ran away. The full strength Legion could definitely fight a holding action against Phoenix, probably better than anyone else, but they would need something extra for a true defeat (assuming Phoenix at her most powerful). ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/89 "2011-09-21T20:44:44Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > He’ll no more forget to take it than I’ll forget to put on my glasses. And for most of the Legion’s history he could go long periods between doses anyway. I thought that that Mon El had been sent into the Phantom Zone to keep his exposure down. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/90 "2011-09-21T20:47:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Y’know, it’s an interesting comparison between the power levels of the Marvel and DC universes. Most of Marvel’s characters are either on the city scale (like Spider-Man, Iron Man, or the X-Men), or on the cosmic scale (Phoenix, Galactus, the Beyonder, the Eternals, the Living Tribunal), with very little in between. DC’s characters, though, seem to be mostly on the planetary scale (Superman and all his kin, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter), with very little above or below. The Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, the Guardians of Oa. The Pyscho-Pirate was pretty up there during the original Crisis…he was pretty involved in the whole thing. I can’t remember if he was being bolstered by the (Anti-)Monitor or not, though. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/91 "2011-09-21T20:48:42Z")
Next do the Doom Patrol vs the Shi’ar Imperial Guard. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/92 "2011-09-21T20:49:42Z")
> [@Ike\_Witt](#): > > I thought that that Mon El had been sent into the Phantom Zone to keep his exposure down. Originally, yes (subject to the continuity issue). He was in the PZ for a little over 1000 years, then released into the 31st Century when Brainy (I think) discovered the serum. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/93 "2011-09-21T20:50:52Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Next do the Doom Patrol vs the Shi’ar Imperial Guard. _snerk_ ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/94 "2011-09-21T20:55:01Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Originally, yes (subject to the continuity issue). He was in the PZ for a little over 1000 years, then released into the 31st Century when Brainy (I think) discovered the serum. The earliest Mon-El in the Legion story I’ve read is the one in which he gets the permanent serum; I guess I had assumed he was but an honorary member before then. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/95 "2011-09-22T00:34:13Z")
Superboy stuck Mon-El in the Phantom Zone in the latter’s first appearance, to keep him alive after a fatal lead exposure. A later Legion story shows Saturn Girl has developed a temporary antidote, allowing Mon-El provisional Legion membership. Braniac 5 later develops a permanent cure, in a story that has he and Mon-El playing a prank, with an undercover Mon-El applying for membership in disguise under the name “Lemon” (lame anagrams being a staple of silver-age DC) and, among other super-feats, drives off a juvenile sun-eater and invents element 152, which has anti-gravity properties and would eventually be used in the Legion flight rings. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/96 "2011-09-22T01:33:06Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Superboy stuck Mon-El in the Phantom Zone in the latter’s first appearance, to keep him alive after a fatal lead exposure. A later Legion story shows Saturn Girl has developed a temporary antidote, allowing Mon-El provisional Legion membership. Braniac 5 later develops a permanent cure, in a story that has he and Mon-El playing a prank, with an undercover Mon-El applying for membership in disguise under the name “Lemon” (lame anagrams being a staple of silver-age DC) and, among other super-feats, drives off a juvenile sun-eater and invents element 152, which has anti-gravity properties and would eventually be used in the Legion flight rings. The induction story is the one I recall. I had forgotten till today that Saturn Girl had invented a temporary antidote, though as soon as I remembered the story, I also remembered thinking at the time, “Hold on a second. She’s the mind-reader. Where the hell was the super-scientist that day?” I also remember thinking, “You know, if I were Mon, I’d have punched Superboy into orbit the second I was out of the Zone.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/97 "2011-09-22T01:50:02Z")
In Mon-El’s first Legion adventure, he defeats a powerful android named Urthlo. Guess who built him. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/98 "2011-09-22T01:54:28Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In Mon-El’s first Legion adventure, he defeats a powerful android named Urthlo. > > Guess who built him. Professor Ivo, obviously. Certainly not the bald guy. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/99 "2011-09-22T04:37:07Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In Mon-El’s first Legion adventure, he defeats a powerful android named Urthlo. > > Guess who built him. Hank Pym? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780/100 "2011-09-22T10:34:21Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Hank Pym? _That_ android was named Khympan, and he’s from Mon-El’s _second_ Legion adventure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-original-x-men-vs-the-silver-age-legion-of-super-heroes/596780.md?page=6)