The Origins of Life

Great Debates
81

Tris:

I’m assuming the latter equation assumes a uniform dispersion, which I don’t think it would be.

I like your first equation, but don’t think the assumptions made about the lifespan of the particles is correct.

A more realistic way to calculate it might be that 99.9% die off in the first million years or so (might be more than that.)

I think we can assume that most of what remains is probably pretty well protected, and has higher survivability.

I’m also thinking of some of the points Jon brought up, and thinking about how to integrate your equation, and this new info into a reply.

82

Does it jump up at the last second to escape being vaporized, like in a falling elevator? :wink:

83

Lib:

Already covered.

84

Depending on the angle of impact the dispersal could be more like an elongated oval with the debris concentrated. Meteors/comets sometimes come in showers. How about the first impact being followed in a few days by a shower of meteors that track through and with the plume assisting escape and dispersal?

85

Let me try those codes in the equations again.

The radius of the solar system is about 30 AU. An AU is about eight light minutes, so our solar system’s entire volume is:
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>V[sub]s[/sub] = [sup]4[/sup]/[sub]3[/sub] <FONT FACE=“Symbol”>p</FONT> * (80 *299,792,458)³
Or, 5.779 * 10[sup]31[/sup]cubic meters
While the volume of the broadcast sphere ten light years radius is:
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>V[sub]b[/sub] = [sup]4[/sup]/[sub]3[/sub] <FONT FACE=“Symbol”>p</FONT> * (31,484,550 * 299,792,458 )³
Or, 3.522 * 10[sup]48[/sup]cubic meters
For each kilogram per solar system volume over the sphere, one must have a total mass (M) equal to the mass in each solar system, times the ratio of the two volumes, or:
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>M = V[sub]b[/sub] ÷ V[sub]s[/sub]
M = 3.522 * 10[sup]48[/sup] ÷ 5.779 * 10[sup]31[/sup]
M = 6.09 * 10 [sup]16[/sup] kilograms
Earth’s mass is 5.98 x 10[sup]24[/sup] kilograms.

<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>Tris</P>

86

Actually, neither do I. But the more likely distribution is along the solar ecliptic, and if you limit yourself to that, The Centauri, and most of the nearer stars are out of consideration. I am not sure what the nearest star on the ecliptic is. I am pretty sure it is a lot further than 10 light years distant.

However, that really is only the point for considering Earth genesis of a specific seeding event. As pointed out in the argument, you have slipped from panspermia to oligospermia without even noting the surrender. To seed the entire galaxy, without trajectories directed by some managing intelligence, one must assume a random distribution. In that case, the numbers I posted are the ones that matter. Over the real distances of our galaxy, those represent more than the mass of the planets from which the life is presupposed to have come.
<P ALIGN=“CENTER”>Tris</P>

Euclid taught me that without assumptions there is no proof. Therefore, in any argument, examine the assumptions.
– **Eric Temple Bell, ** (1883-1960)

87

Tris:

I see your point. I’m thinking of a pert commercial. Earth seeds two planets, then those three planets seed six planets, then those six planets seed twelve planets, etcetera.

I’m not really conceding anything, just trying to figure this out. I’ll probably do some research, sit down with a pencil and a six-pack this Friday, and see what I can come up with. In the meanwwhile I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your help. This kind of stuff just nags at me until I think I understand it.

88

Who can make the Panspermia Fish a reality?

I was poking around sci.bio.evolution and came across the information below. I guess Scylla is still slowly nipping at that six-pack. I thought he was going to dust this one off and get the Nobel Prize?
http://www.panspermia.org/zhmur1.htm

FOSSILIZED BACTERIA IN (meteorites) MURCHISON AND EFREMOVKA

The results of our investigations indicate that microbial life on various objects of
the solar sistem was present virtually from the time of their formation, that is, 4.5
billion years ago. This means that life originated almost one billion years earlier
than it is usually belived. The delay in the time of the appearance of life on the
Earth (3.8 billion years ago) and extraterrestrial objects supports the idea of
panspermia, i.e. the idea that life on the Earth was brought from the space. This
idea is promoted by such authorities as V.I.Vernadsky, who wrote “…life did not
originate on the Earth, it was brought to the Earth from space in a finished form;”
and G.A. Zavarzin, who believes that data on the time of the appearance of the most ancient prokaryotes on the Earth conclusively prove the extraterrestrial orign of life."

The panspermia web site: http://www.panspermia.org/

They publish opposing views:

PLAUSIBILITY, SIGNIFICANCE & THE PANSPERMIA EPIDEMIC by Jon Richfield

For a start, Panspermia as a concept is very poorly defined and supporting arguments tend to be ill-disciplined to say the least. They range from academic musings on academic possibilities, to passionate and partisan assertions of the universal inevitability of life, not necessarily stopping short of UFO-mongering. At one extreme are tenuous
speculations that SOME viable living material COULD at SOME TIME have been splashed off a planet or have got cobbled together in space and SOMEHOW survived indefinite periods of exposure to radiation and free radicals and
IN PRINCIPLE have arrived intact on a receptor planet AND established a viable population. To a biologist, this is not strictly impossible, but it is not nearly plausible enough to be exciting. After all, in terms of strict logic it also is hard to refute the tooth fairy hypothesis, which so far has not cut much of a figure in the biology textbooks.

And: panspermia takes questions:
Hello, I really enjoy your website, and I have one question: Is there such a thing as a panspermia fish? I’m talking about a fish you can put on your car. First there was the Jesus-fish, then the darwin-fish (with legs) and then the jesus-fish eating the darwin fish and now there’s a whole plethora of fish for people to display in order to let everyone know exactly how they feel. However, I have yet to see any kind of panspermia fish! Does one exist? If so, where can
I pick one up?
Ans:
If not, there definately should be one… --Paul

Ray (“I’ll bet someone can turn this into a God debate.”)

89

Yes, I’ve downed a six pack or two since I lasted posted this topic.

I’m not sure I can attack this problem in a way to get meaningful numbers in the equation.

How many bacterial units make it into space intact (if any)after a meteoric event?

A large percentage must get vaporized or killed immediately. The best candidates for survival seem to be the ones that reside deep inside rocks.

THen let’s suppose you get a viable bacterial unit to enter a solar system with a suitable host planet. What are the chances of that bacterial unit arriving intact on the surface of a host planet?

I feel pretty confident a bacterium suitably protected could survive an interstellar trip of considerable magnitude. One unprotected could perhaps make a short hop of a few light years.

My problem is takeoff and landing.

90

Just had an idea for an interesting experiment that might help.

Groundhog season is coming around and this weekend will probably be time to site in the arsenal of weaponry that I will use to combat them.

In order to determine the probability of intact bacteria surviving a meteoric impact and being flung off the earth, I propose doing the following when I site in my rifles and shotgun:

Fill a large box with sand. Color the sand in concentric circles around the bullseye. Aim my Panasonic camcorder with the ultra-high shutter speed on the sandbox. Shoot bullets and slugs at varieties of angles into the sand. Maybe film strikes into water as well.

From this maybe we can use some math and determine if it’s the particles closest to the strike zone that are flung the farthest (also least likeliest to survive because of heat impact and such) or if it’s the particles a certain radius away that get flung the farthest.

If I weigh the box before and after it may be possible to determine the amount of matter a meteor would send into space upon impact based on its weight.

From this maybe I can determine a rational starting point for the rate at which biological matter from earth exits the solar system (if it does)

As an added bonus I get to shoot my guns at things and film it which is always fun.