# The Origins of Sarcasm
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 24, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382 "2005-08-24T03:26:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 18
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@souroranges](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/souroranges)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/1 "2005-08-24T03:26:52Z")
Inspired by a episode of Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends ( 😃 ), I wondered how the concept of saying something… but meaning the complete opposite… occured. Are there any theories on this, or is there a simple and straightforward answer.
Then again, maybe Cecil doesn’t use sarcasm **enough** to fully understand my dilemma… :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/2 "2005-08-24T03:31:43Z")
GOOD QUESTION! 😃
(I kid. Seriously, I wish I could give an answer.)
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### Author:  [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/3 "2005-08-24T03:58:58Z")
Hang on a sec, I’ll check my list of useless questions I have the answer to. :dubious:
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/4 "2005-08-24T04:08:31Z")
Now that’s going to stimulate lots of deep thinking.
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### Author:  [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/5 "2005-08-24T04:13:49Z")
> [@CynicalGabe](#):
>
> Hang on a sec, I’ll check my list of useless questions I have the answer to. :dubious:
Wow, that would come in handy if we were on a trivia message board…
(In _The Lowest Form of Wit_, Oscar Wilde supposedly wrote about the history of sarcasm. I haven’t read it, but it possible that his history may have been a little less than earnest.)
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### Author:  [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/6 "2005-08-24T04:14:01Z")
Don’t confuse sarcasm with irony. Sarcasm is a type of irony. Sarcasm is often used as a means of direct ridicule, whereas irony generally engenders a feeling of inclusion in the viewing audience.
Although irony is a more intelligent form of humour, sarcasm is seen as the lowest form of wit since it usually automatic without quick thought required.
[Wiki - Irony](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony) for a history of irony.
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/7 "2005-08-24T05:07:39Z")
I don’t know…I would say while there are certainly times and cultures that are more sarcastic than others (like this one), broadly speaking sarcasm would be pretty hard wired into a species that can use language, that can think ahead (and therefore appreciate the dissonance between what is expected and what actually happens), and can lie.
Example:
Og: “Og smash!” (raises club over head causing it to flie backwards into a bush)
Ally Oop: “Og smash!? Oh yeah, Og smash real good!! Bwahhaaaaa!”
(Of course then Og retrieves his club and beats Ally to death but that’s an entirely different kind of humour.)
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### Author:  [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/8 "2005-08-24T13:36:49Z")
It may indeed be hard-wired in the brain
[http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2005/May/EEN42921a0b6eeed.html](http://www.elitestv.com/pub/2005/May/EEN42921a0b6eeed.html)
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### Author:  [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/9 "2005-08-24T13:40:15Z")
5th c. BC Spartan sarcasm:
> [@](#):
>
> Persians: “Our arrow-storm will block out the sun!”
> Spartans: “Great! We’ll be fighting in the shade!”
>
> Persians: “Lay down your weapons!”
> Spartans: “Come and get them!”
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### Author:  [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/10 "2005-08-24T14:17:55Z")
> [@Can Handle the Truth](#):
>
> 5th c. BC Spartan sarcasm:
Go back and re-read Antony’s 's speech in “Julius Caesar”
Was he extolling Caesar as a hero and Idol?------or ridiculing him for being a power mad ambitious hypocrite?
Satire lived in the pen of W. Shakespeare
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### Author:  [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/11 "2005-08-24T16:09:13Z")
Sarcasm is invented anew by every teenager, just around the time they turn 13. No-one else has thought of it until this point.
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### Author:  [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/12 "2005-08-24T16:57:36Z")
If the origins of sarcasm is hard-wired in the brain, then perhaps that explains the subtleties of sarcasm, irony, and other forms of wit. The best and most effective are those which take a few seconds to intrepret as sarcasm.
How it is that I can come up with sarcasm on the spot but can’t think of an example right now is beyond me.
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### Author:  [@Can\_Handle\_the\_Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Can_Handle_the_Truth)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/13 "2005-08-24T19:49:45Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#):
>
> Was he extolling Caesar as a hero and Idol?------or ridiculing him for being a power mad ambitious hypocrite?
Yes, the best sarcasm is recognized only by those “in the know”.
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/14 "2005-08-24T21:14:27Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#):
>
> Go back and re-read Antony’s 's speech in “Julius Caesar”
>
> Was he extolling Caesar as a hero and Idol?------or ridiculing him for being a power mad ambitious hypocrite?
>
> Satire lived in the pen of W. Shakespeare
:dubious: Aside from the fact that I don’t know what this has to do with CHtT’s post…maybe you should reread it yourself? I’m not entirly sure what your point is but the speech on the face of it certainly didn’t extol Caesar as a hero. The sarcasm is all in that he is downplaying Caesar’s greatness and saying he is only there as a friend and his murderers are “honourable men”. All the while turning the crowd (who understand sarcasm) against the murderers.
When did he ridicule Caesar for being a power mad ambtion hypocrite? If that’s what he was trying to do, rather odd that he went out to speak against the people who thought he was a power mad ambitious hypocrite.
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### Author:  [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)
#### Post date: [August 24, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/15 "2005-08-24T21:26:52Z")
Homeric sarcasm:
“Do you expect, if our ships fall to helm-shining Hektor,
you will walk each of you back dryshod to the land of your fathers?
Do you not hear how Hektor is stirring up all his people,
how he is raging to set fire to our ships? He is not
inviting you to a dance.”
– _The Iliad_, Book 15
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### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/16 "2005-08-25T04:06:39Z")
> [@betenoir](#):
>
> :dubious: Aside from the fact that I don’t know what this has to do with CHtT’s post…maybe you should reread it yourself? I’m not entirly sure what your point is but the speech on the face of it certainly didn’t extol Caesar as a hero. The sarcasm is all in that he is downplaying Caesar’s greatness and saying he is only there as a friend and his murderers are “honourable men”. All the while turning the crowd (who understand sarcasm) against the murderers.
Brutus requires Antony to agree to a few conditions before the conspirators allow him to speak at the funeral. Antony is keeping to the letter of those conditions (while totally violating their intent).
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### Author:  [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/17 "2005-08-25T15:36:54Z")
> [@Fretful Porpentine](#):
>
> Homeric sarcasm:
>
> […]
>
> – _The Iliad_, Book 15
More Homeric sarcasm:
> [@](#):
>
> **Homer:** Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Lisa honey, are you saying you’re _never_ going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?
> **Lisa:** No.
> **Homer:** Ham?
> **Lisa:** No.
> **Homer:** Pork chops?
> **Lisa:** Dad! Those all come from the same animal!
> **Homer:** (Chuckles) Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, _magical_ animal.
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [August 25, 2005, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-sarcasm/318382/18 "2005-08-25T15:53:31Z")
> [@Steve MB](#):
>
> Brutus requires Antony to agree to a few conditions before the conspirators allow him to speak at the funeral. Antony is keeping to the letter of those conditions (while totally violating their intent).
Right. As I said. And it’s certainly an example of sarcasm. But I don’t get the “…or ridiculing him for being a power mad ambitious hypocrite” part. That’s not what he did on the face of it, or in his real intent.