# The Origins of Satay **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568 "2002-08-26T03:46:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/1 "2002-08-26T03:46:13Z")
Whilst enjoying some yummy Satay Chicken Noodles I started to wonder where satay came from? How was it first eaten? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/2 "2002-08-26T04:26:53Z")
The **EOD** supplies > [@](#): > > An Indonesian and Malaysian dish, consisting of small pieces of meat grilled on a skewer and usually served with a spiced sauce. First appears in print in English in 1934. If you ever come to Akron, I’ll take you to a Thai restaraunt that makes satay to die for. And the curry. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/3 "2002-08-26T04:28:39Z")
That, of course, was the **OED**. Most Americans associate it with Thai cooking these days, I’m sure. I think that was an offshoot of the VietNam war. ---
**Author:** ![dqa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dqa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dqa)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/4 "2002-08-26T05:20:30Z")
**samclem** , what’s the restaurant? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/5 "2002-08-26T05:41:22Z")
And yes, I can spell restaurant when I want to. My spelling lately is horrible. Hope I’m OK. Bangkok Gourmet. Been around in Akron for about 20 years. Most Ohio guides rank it second in state. Trust me, it’s first. The best Thai in US is Chicago–Arun Thai. I used to eat there 15-20 years ago when you could still get in on a phone call. My res **tau** rant is the second best I’ve found. It’s that good. ---
**Author:** ![istara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e79b87/32.png) [@istara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/istara)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/6 "2002-08-26T05:58:36Z")
It’s that spicy peanut flavour that does it for me - yummmmmmm. Last week I had satay chicken sticks with this amazing peanut and tamarind dipping sauce. Ohmigod I am _ **hungry** _! ---
**Author:** ![leechbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7cd45c/32.png) [@leechbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leechbabe)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/7 "2002-08-26T06:00:15Z")
So it seems “Satay” refers to the way it is cooked - yet the chicken I had was stir fried and it was the sauce they referred to as a “Satay” flavour. Maybe thats an Aussie variation? I always thought the Satay style sauce was an Indian thing. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/8 "2002-08-26T13:49:13Z")
I think it migrated up the peninsula into Thailand. Since Malaysia and Thailand have a border this is more likely. The southern parts of Thailand tends a lot more toward Malay cooking influences, hence Satay, Penang and Mussaman curries. Although curry would have also migrated into Thailand via Burma and India. I don’t think that the Vietnam war had anything to do with this dish reaching Thailand, although it’s likely why Thai cuisine was popularized in the USA and Europe. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2002, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/9 "2002-08-26T13:55:05Z")
I always understood that it was exclusively Indonesian, and had been appropriated first by Malaya, then picked up over the past few decades by other SEAsian cuisines. I don’t know if the use of chillis in the sauce was an Indian influence. Will look this up when I get home. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/10 "2002-08-27T06:26:42Z")
My friend Tom Dika, from the Netherlands assured me it was Indonesian, brought by the Dutch to their many ports of call. His wife made the best I ever had, so I believe him. She was probably born about 1934, in Indonesia. Man, I wish I had a plate full of Satay. Anyone know anyplace in Northern Virginia that makes it? Tris ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/11 "2002-08-27T06:31:56Z")
Stir fried??? The real thing is meat on skewers barbecued over a small charcoal brazier on the sidewalk. The guys in Indo/Malaysia who stand and fan the charcoal are surprisingly well off - it’s a lucrative business, because… Satay is yummy. The principle is the same as brochettes (N Africa) and the various chicken/lamb-on-skewer snacks found everywhere from Greece to the MidEast, Pakistan, Central Asia, etc. The secret is the sweet peanut and chilli sauce. A very similar sauce is also used on Indonesian salad - gado gado. Stomach’s rumbling now… ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/12 "2002-08-27T07:05:24Z")
The spicy peanut-based sauce that is often served over/with satay has become known as “satay sauce” some places. I’ve seen this on the menu in Chinese restaurants, for example: “Stir-Fried Chicken and Vegetables with Satay Sauce”. And such dishes can be quite good. But if it isn’t rubbed with spices, threaded on bamboo skewers, and cooked over an open flame, it’s not proper satay. Proper satay is surely one of the foods of the gods. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/13 "2002-08-27T07:51:02Z")
Bizarre twist… Since making my previous post barely one hour ago, I actually encountered a Thai diplomat, and asked her to confirm that satay is a Malay invention imported into her country. She denies it, but I guess she’s paid to. FWIW, the peanut/sugar/chilli/tamarind/onion mixture in satay sauce also appears without much modification (but not in the form of a sauce) on the Thai noodle dish Pad Thai. Also FWIW, chilli, of course, is a native of America. ---
**Author:** ![Squish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Squish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squish)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/14 "2002-08-27T14:17:23Z")
Amazingly enough, there’s a great little storefront Thai restaurant up the block from me (I live in BFE). Mmmmmn, satay! They’re too small to have a smoking section, so I take my food home and I use the leftover peanut sauce as a salad dressing. Try it sometime; it’s wonderful. ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2002, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/15 "2002-08-27T16:33:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hemlock \* > \*\*Also FWIW, chilli, of course, is a native of America. \*\* So is the peanut, isn’t it? It makes me wonder what Southeast Asian cooking was like when the pre-Columbian Portuguese explorers first arrived looking for spices. ---
**Author:** ![Hemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Hemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hemlock)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/16 "2002-08-28T11:34:36Z")
Just did a Google search on “peanut native america”, and it looks like it’s a native legume of S America. I do know that before the chilli arrived in Asia, they were using black peppercorns to make food Hot. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/17 "2002-08-28T14:47:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Triskadecamus \* > \*\* > > Man, I wish I had a plate full of Satay. Anyone know anyplace in Northern Virginia that makes it? > > Tris \*\* You might try [this place](http://dc.yahoo.com/external/washingtonian/reviews/bargain/melati.html) or [this one](http://www.washingtonian.com/dining/Profiles/betawigrill.html), if they’re not too far out of your way. Not quite in Fairfax, I’m afraid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/18 "2002-08-28T15:38:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Triskadecamus \* > \*\*My friend Tom Dika, from the Netherlands assured me it was Indonesian, brought by the Dutch to their many ports of call. His wife made the best I ever had, so I believe him. She was probably born about 1934, in Indonesia. > Tris \*\* **Dika** is right. a quick Google search will attribute “satay” to Indonesia. My parents from Holland taught in Indonesia (where I was concieved) following WWII. After Independance, the “illegal” possession of a firearm forced my parents to escape Jakarta under cover of darkness and eventually emmigrate to Canada. As a kid in the 50s and 60s in Canada I ate many foods spiced with peanut butter based sauces . My friends just couldn’t believe that peanut butter and meat could be served in harmony. It was a long time before I ever found a restaurant in Canada that served satay. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/19 "2002-08-28T16:26:57Z")
Was looking a bit harder and came across this ([about Indonesian cuisine](http://www.sallys-place.com/food/ethnic_cusine/indonesia.htm)): > [@](#): > > Arab traders ultimately converted Java from Hinduism to Islam and exercised their culinary influence as well. Kebabs, marinated meat cubes threaded on skewers, were reinterpreted to become satay. Dill and fennel entered the repertoire of spices. Today Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. Not surprisingly, goat and lamb are important meats, while pork is forbidden. It is eaten only in Hindu Bali and within the Chinese community. Of course, Indonesia as such didn’t really exist until modern times (it was created in 1949). There were many different kingdoms that existed centered on the main islands of Java, Sumatra, Borneo, etc. One reason I mentioned Malaysia previously is that it shares the island of Borneo with Indonesia and the island of Sumatra is close on to the Malay penisula. Since both were influenced by Indian and Chinese immigrants and Arab traders (to the extent that they became Muslim countries) and both have satay dishes, it stands to reason to an extent that _satay_ could have evolved in either or both countries. The word is attributed to Malay, Indonesian (which is a form of Malay) or possibly Tamil (interesting). So it’s probably impossible to tell for certain the exact origin. It’s almost definitely _not_ Thai in origin although the easiest place to find it in the USA seems to be in Thai restaurants, which is attributable to the dearth of Indonesian and Malaysian restaurants in most US cities. ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2002, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568/20 "2002-08-28T17:07:15Z")
At this site, [http://www.indonesia-tourism.com/general/history.html](http://www.indonesia-tourism.com/general/history.html) it states that > [@](#): > > Arab traders and merchants laid the foundations for the gradual spread of Islam to the region which did not replace Hinduism and Buddhism as the dominant religions until the end of the 16th century. I’m still wondering who brought the peanuts and chilis typically used in modern satay sauce to the region. Did the European explorers bring these items directly? Or did the Arab traders get them from the Europeans and then spread them to Southeast Asia (along with the “dill and fennel”). The timing looks like it could be either way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-origins-of-satay/125568.md?page=2)