# The Orville Season 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966 "2018-12-31T06:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1161 "2019-04-12T15:10:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > I was kind of hoping that the renegade female colonists would turn out to be bigger badasses with better weapons than the main Moclan from the battle cruiser. > > After the aggressive way they greeted the landing party, it was disappointing to see them acting so helpless when the Moclan security forces came. I think they showed one person just standing there, weaving some straw as if making a basket. Was this supposed to be some sort of agrarian paradise of pacifists? And, BTW, I’m not totally clear on Moclan biology. Apparently they’re all male but some of them get pregnant and have babies. Isn’t that a big chunk of what it means to be female? So how are the females of the species different? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1162 "2019-04-12T15:22:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think they showed one person just standing there, weaving some straw as if making a basket. Was this supposed to be some sort of agrarian paradise of pacifists? > > And, BTW, I’m not totally clear on Moclan biology. Apparently they’re all male but some of them get pregnant and have babies. Isn’t that a big chunk of what it means to be female? So how are the females of the species different? They don’t get pregnant, they lay eggs. Bortus laid the egg that produced Topa. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1163 "2019-04-12T15:28:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Did it \*have \*to be Dolly Parton? :mad: I really thought it should have been Cindi Lauper. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1164 "2019-04-12T15:34:38Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > They don’t get pregnant, they lay eggs. Bortus laid the egg that produced Topa. So do the males both lay eggs and fertilize them? And what do females do? Lay infertile eggs? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1165 "2019-04-12T15:47:07Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So do the males both lay eggs and fertilize them? And what do females do? Lay infertile eggs? Whatever it is, it’s weird. I thought maybe they were going to go down the path that in fact 50% of them are born female, and married couples actually are almost always a male and a female which is how they actually reproduce. But if that was the case then Klyden would have laid the egg, not Bortus. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1166 "2019-04-12T15:53:56Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Whatever it is, it’s weird. I thought maybe they were going to go down the path that in fact 50% of them are born female, and married couples actually are almost always a male and a female which is how they actually reproduce. But if that was the case then Klyden would have laid the egg, not Bortus. I thought it was already stated that Klyden had the procedure when he was born… therefore it still works out. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1167 "2019-04-12T15:54:59Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I thought it was already stated that Klyden had the procedure when he was born… therefore it still works out. Except Bortus laid the egg. Which is normally the female’s job. ETA: [cite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBdoTyC3V34). One of the best Bortus scenes of the first season. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1168 "2019-04-12T16:05:21Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Except Bortus laid the egg. Which is normally the female’s job. > > ETA: [cite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBdoTyC3V34). One of the best Bortus scenes of the first season. Which doesn’t change the math of male+female = procreation. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1169 "2019-04-12T16:09:15Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Which doesn’t change the math of male+female = procreation. If they were going to do the “each fertile couple really includes a female” it would have made more sense if Klyden had actually laid the egg, but Bortus sat on it until it hatched. Like jacanas and phalaropes. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1170 "2019-04-12T16:18:04Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > If they were going to do the “each fertile couple really includes a female” it would have made more sense if Klyden had actually laid the egg, but Bortus sat on it until it hatched. Like jacanas and phalaropes. I think you’re putting way more thought into this then they did. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1171 "2019-04-12T16:23:20Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > (In fact, the children produced by two females would invariably be female themselves, so there’s that.) On Earth, we have identified at least three forms of sex determination. Most mammals are XX/XY determinants; most birds and some other creatures determine the male as “WW” and the female as “WZ” (presumably, the “Z” chromosome is why female birds tend to be less colorful); then, in some lizards and other critters, the female is XX and the male is X0 (only has one X chromosome). Moclan sex determination could in fact just rely on some combination alleles that express sexual characteristics as apparently one or the other, but it is not obvious that the “males” and “females” have functionally different reproductive organs. It could just be that the expression of the female alleles produces smaller, less aggressive individuals. The culture became male-dominated because the males are dominant, and the females, who can apparently successfully breed with either sex, became increasingly subjugated. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1172 "2019-04-12T17:06:12Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Moclan sex determination could in fact just rely on some combination alleles that express sexual characteristics as apparently one or the other, but it is not obvious that the “males” and “females” have functionally different reproductive organs. It could just be that the expression of the female alleles produces smaller, less aggressive individuals. The culture became male-dominated because the males are dominant, and the females, who can apparently successfully breed with either sex, became increasingly subjugated. Or it could be as simple as actual Moclan females make an egg, and actual Moclan males fertilize the egg, but Moclan society had, long ago, chosen to not recognize that distinction. They wanted for whatever reason\* to be all males. So now they say there are males-who-make-eggs and males-who-fertilize-eggs, and Moclan “females” are those born with … something the equivalent of a cleft palate. Not a sexual characteristic. So the reason their society confuses everyone is that the Moclans started off fooling themselves first. Or maybe I’m giving it more thought than the writers did. 🙂 \*The living embodiment of those right wing nightmares. "this is what happens when we give gays rights! Next thing, everyone will be gay! Then dogs and cats lying together! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1173 "2019-04-12T17:13:13Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Did it \*have \*to be Dolly Parton? :mad: > [@simster](#): > > I really thought it should have been Cindi Lauper. I suppose the obvious choice would have been\* Respect\* and the obvious joke would have been [_I Am Woman_.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rptW7zOPX2E) But this is Seth MacFarlane’s territory and there is something both absurd and logical about _9 to 5_ becoming a rally cry. And the look Admiral Halsey gave Ed was a great payoff. I’ll bet Dolly Parton laughed louder than anyone. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1174 "2019-04-12T17:40:34Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I really thought it should have been Cindi Lauper. Janis Joplin, “Women is Losers”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1175 "2019-04-12T17:52:53Z")
I think someone wondered earlier why so many episodes featured the Moclans and I think this one provided the answer. I think Seth MacFarlane intends this as a metaphor to explore ideas like how, for just one example (there are many), the US accepts a repressive, misogynistic society like Saudi Arabia because the Saudis provide oil. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1176 "2019-04-12T18:11:19Z")
It strikes me that Moclans are biologically hermaphroditic rather than having two genders. The male/female distinction is a social distinction based on things like facial features and voice tone; characteristics which are perhaps evolutionary holdovers from a time when there were two district sexes. Or maybe, being so warlike and misogynistic, they at some point used genetic engineering to attempt to eliminate ”females” and make it possible for “males” to reproduce on their own. The crusade against females is then an attempt to finalize this partially failed policy. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1177 "2019-04-12T18:22:25Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > … > The male/female distinction is a social distinction based on things like facial features and voice tone; characteristics which are perhaps evolutionary holdovers from a time when there were two district sexes. > … Obviously I meant “distinct sexes” rather than “district”. The edit timer ran out before I noticed the error. Stupid autocorrect. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1178 "2019-04-12T19:33:00Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think someone wondered earlier why so many episodes featured the Moclans and I think this one provided the answer. I think Seth MacFarlane intends this as a metaphor to explore ideas like how, for just one example (there are many), the US accepts a repressive, misogynistic society like Saudi Arabia because the Saudis provide oil. Bah. I dont want messages. Too much Moclans. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1179 "2019-04-12T20:15:35Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It strikes me that Moclans are biologically hermaphroditic rather than having two genders. > > The male/female distinction is a social distinction based on things like facial features and voice tone; characteristics which are perhaps evolutionary holdovers from a time when there were two district sexes. I agree, but I do wonder i.0f there is any background biology to the characters. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1180 "2019-04-12T21:59:08Z")
> [@simster](#): > > I really thought it should have been Cindi Lauper. Lauper isn’t a big enough star. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=60)