# The Orville Season 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966 "2018-12-31T06:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2019, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1181 "2019-04-13T10:46:04Z")
Yay, Rena Owen! ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2019, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1182 "2019-04-13T11:53:04Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think someone wondered earlier why so many episodes featured the Moclans and I think this one provided the answer. I think Seth MacFarlane intends this as a metaphor to explore ideas like how, for just one example (there are many), the US accepts a repressive, misogynistic society like Saudi Arabia because the Saudis provide oil. Bingo. I think McFarlane takes a similar attitude towards such societies as Sam Harris or Bill Maher does (certainly he is a secularist like them), and this is a clever way of addressing the topic without anyone being able to call him an Islamophobe. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think they showed one person just standing there, weaving some straw as if making a basket. Was this supposed to be some sort of agrarian paradise of pacifists? But earlier, they looked like a tough commando team when they surrounded the shuttle with rifles drawn, and kind of frogmarched the landing party to the leader’s abode. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1183 "2019-04-13T16:02:46Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It strikes me that Moclans are biologically hermaphroditic rather than having two genders. > > The male/female distinction is a social distinction based on things like facial features and voice tone; characteristics which are perhaps evolutionary holdovers from a time when there were two district sexes. I think the “hermaphrodite” option is the most likely. They pretty much have to be, for their reproduction to make any sense at all. I suspect there’s something in their genetic make up that usually produces a hermaphrodite with the male reproductive features being significantly more prominent than the female features, and so they are perceived as being “male”, while the “females” have male reproductive features that are much smaller/more hidden (growers rather than showers, in human terms?). This dichotomy could be the result of many types of pressure - natural selection, sexual selection, social pressure, deliberate social engineering. Link this back to the first episode of this season, when Bortus went back to Moclus for his annual urination. It was a major public affair, when everyone on site would have seen, and probably commented on, the size of his junk. Perhaps this rite evolved as a means of making sure everyone had the “right” size of penis. No one would want to mate with someone who everyone else laughed at. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > But earlier, they looked like a tough commando team when they surrounded the shuttle with rifles drawn, and kind of frogmarched the landing party to the leader’s abode. Yeah, and where did all their rifles go? When they’re just hanging out in hiding, they have a team ready to capture any visitors on a moments notice, but when there’s literally a battlecruiser in orbit just waiting for orders to capture or kill them all, they suddenly decide to stand down and put their weapons away? Ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2019, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1184 "2019-04-13T16:34:02Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > … > Yeah, and where did all their rifles go? When they’re just hanging out in hiding, they have a team ready to capture any visitors on a moments notice, but when there’s literally a battlecruiser in orbit just waiting for orders to capture or kill them all, they suddenly decide to stand down and put their weapons away? Ridiculous. Resisting a Moclan battle cruiser would likely be suicidal whereas a small group of humans, who they know are likely to be more sympathetic to their cause, are less threatening. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1185 "2019-04-13T22:09:26Z")
My hat’s off to Seth McFarlane for finding a way to have Marina Sirtis on the show. She was always my favorite on ST:TNG. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1186 "2019-04-14T01:30:43Z")
> [@racepug](#): > > My hat’s off to Seth McFarlane for finding a way to have Marina Sirtis on the show. She was always my favorite on ST:TNG. It was not Jonathan Frakes? ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1187 "2019-04-14T01:45:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It was not Jonathan Frakes? First off, I’m male (heterosexual), so, no. Second, while I’ve come to admire Jonathan Frakes in the intervening years I never cared for his character in that show. He reminded me too much of my dad. I was also a young man when ST:TNG debuted so seeing a “looker” like Marina Sirtis was quite, um, _stimulating_ for me. It’s nice to see Mr. McFarland give her a role in his latest, even if it’s only a small one. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1188 "2019-04-14T02:33:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It was not Jonathan Frakes? If the question means, “but JF directed the episode, shouldn’t he get credit for casting Marina Sirtis?” The answer is that TV casting decisions are usually made by producers, not directors. Besides, JF has only directed two episodes of the show, and it may only be coincidence that he drew the script for the episode MS was cast in. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1189 "2019-04-14T07:41:16Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Resisting a Moclan battle cruiser would likely be suicidal whereas a small group of humans, who they know are likely to be more sympathetic to their cause, are less threatening. But it wasn’t suicidal for Kelly and Bortus. 😕 It’s like those two scenes were written by different people. ETA: I couldn’t stand Sirtis’s TNG character. I didn’t recognize her here. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1190 "2019-04-14T16:41:19Z")
There was also Tony Todd (who played Worf’s brother Kurn) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1191 "2019-04-14T16:51:36Z")
Regarding all discussion on Moclan mating and reproduction I feel obliged to point out that we can’t expect the way things work on our planet to be the standard in the universe. For all we know, it will turn out that having two primary genders is the outlier when compared to how all other (off-Earth) species are constructed. Of course, a point could be made that in-show they’ve discovered this not to be the case and it \*is \*the Moclans who are unique, but on the other hand maybe all the other races are just too polite or discreet to tell us how odd they find human sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1192 "2019-04-14T18:43:11Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > …I thought the Bortus/Klyden/Topa scenes were the most interesting parts of the episode - Bortus examines and admires the differences between Moclus and the rest of the Union, but Klyden resents and loathes them. And now we know what Klyden does all day - sits in the cabin being annoyed about all the females on the ship. Yeah, it’s hard to believe that in the beginning it looked like _Klyden_ was the one open to other cultures. > [@terentii](#): > > Did it \*have \*to be Dolly Parton? :mad: I loved that. 🆒 > [@E-DUB](#): > > … (In fact, the children produced by two females would invariably be female themselves, so there’s that.) There’s no reason whatsoever to assume that; this is an alien species. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I think someone wondered earlier why so many episodes featured the Moclans and I think this one provided the answer. I think Seth MacFarlane intends this as a metaphor to explore ideas like how, for just one example (there are many), the US accepts a repressive, misogynistic society like Saudi Arabia because the Saudis provide oil. And he’s not being subtle about it at all. All we’re missing is for a group of Moclans to commit a major terrorist attack on the Union and then the Union can act like the terrorists weren’t Moclan and invade a completely different planet. > [@davidm](#): > > It strikes me that Moclans are biologically hermaphroditic rather than having two genders. > > The male/female distinction is a social distinction based on things like facial features and voice tone; characteristics which are perhaps evolutionary holdovers from a time when there were two district sexes. > > Or maybe, being so warlike and misogynistic, they at some point used genetic engineering to attempt to eliminate ”females” and make it possible for “males” to reproduce on their own. The crusade against females is then an attempt to finalize this partially failed policy. This makes sense. At least they didn’t genetically engineer their females into non-sapient animals. > [@Lare](#): > > Regarding all discussion on Moclan mating and reproduction I feel obliged to point out that we can’t expect the way things work on our planet to be the standard in the universe. For all we know, it will turn out that having two primary genders is the outlier when compared to how all other (off-Earth) species are constructed… The show severely undermines that in the way they portray nearly every alien species. They constantly show aliens who display the same gender characteristics as humans. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1193 "2019-04-14T20:15:18Z")
Just watched the episode. All this talk of Marina Sirtis and Tony Todd, and no love for F. Murray Abraham? I liked the ending. A “next gen” solution. (for better or worse…) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1194 "2019-04-14T21:00:53Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > All this talk of Marina Sirtis and Tony Todd, and no love for F. Murray Abraham? F. Murray Abraham. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1195 "2019-04-14T21:03:31Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The show severely undermines that in the way they portray nearly every alien species. They constantly show aliens who display the same gender characteristics as humans. Well, there’s also Yaphit, who, although he presents as “male” from our social point of view, has also been noted as being a species that reproduces by mitosis. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1196 "2019-04-14T21:19:10Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > And he’s not being subtle about it at all. All we’re missing is for a group of Moclans to commit a major terrorist attack on the Union and then the Union can act like the terrorists weren’t Moclan and invade a completely different planet. Well, of course he’s not being subtle about it. This is his version of Star Trek, which was [not a show noted for the subtlety of its political metaphors.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708474/) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1197 "2019-04-14T23:07:39Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Well, there’s also Yaphit, who, although he presents as “male” from our social point of view, has also been noted as being a species that reproduces by mitosis. Yet he’s infatuated with the doctor. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1198 "2019-04-14T23:19:56Z")
A few thoughts: 1. Bortus acted incredibly stupidly by not telling his captain about the baby, and Ed not suspending him from duty was inexplicable. Bortus should be brought up on charges, and it was a pointlessly clumsy opening to the story. 2. Maybe Moclans are more tolerant of conflict than we are but why hasn’t Bortus dumped Klyden? What an asshole that guy is. 3. That said, I am again pleased that the episode didn’t have an easy, tied-up-with-a-bow solution. They came to a temporary compromise. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1199 "2019-04-14T23:31:00Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > A few thoughts: > > 1. Bortus acted incredibly stupidly by not telling his captain about the baby, and Ed not suspending him from duty was inexplicable. Bortus should be brought up on charges, and it was a pointlessly clumsy opening to the story. > > 2… > > 1. That said, I am again pleased that the episode didn’t have an easy, tied-up-with-a-bow solution. They came to a temporary compromise. Yes, and showing his kid that baby was also incredibly stupid. In fact Bortus has acted really stupid on a number of occasions. Right, I like compromise, they hardly ever go for that on TV. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1200 "2019-04-14T23:53:49Z")
Wouldn’t Bortus have to kill Klyden to dump him? Obviously he doesn’t want to do that and if he tries to dump him otherwise maybe Klyden wouldn’t accept it, or he’d be deeply shamed or something. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=61)