# The Orville Season 2 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [December 31, 2018, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966 "2018-12-31T06:20:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 65
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1281 "2019-04-22T19:45:57Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Did they do anything to the actress to make her seem younger other than using a wig (which I kinda liked, BTW) and slightly rosier makeup? A couple of times I thought they might have done some CGI de-aging, but I couldn’t be sure. Looked to me like the added a little bulk to her face. Baby fat. It seems like women’s faces become more angular as they age. Not sure if they did it make-up or post. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1282 "2019-04-22T23:39:31Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Seven years is still not a huge difference The award-winning “UP” series is based on watching people age at seven-year increments. I have watched all of them, and I’d say there is a noticeable difference between 28 and 35. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > It also evokes Groundhog Day, how Phil keeps “perfecting” his one-day date with Rita. Of course, in doing so he overperfects it and turns her off. ---
**Author:** ![tavalla](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tavalla/32/89_2.png) [@tavalla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tavalla)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1283 "2019-04-23T03:46:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I’m surprised the most obvious argument against a captain dating a subordinate on a starship hasn’t been made. Would Ed ever feel able to order Kelly on a dangerous mission if they became lovers again? Pretty sure Kelly made it when Ed started pushing her on the subject. I wish I could remember the episode that was in - she was pretty direct about it, from memory. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1284 "2019-04-23T04:15:44Z")
Am I the only one that was a little creeped out by this episode? That seemed like a major violation of trust on Ed’s part. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1285 "2019-04-23T14:02:11Z")
Yeah. Ed is telling her, “Well, if _YOU_ won’t get back into a relationship with me, I’ll do it with the younger you.” So he gets what he wants against what she wants – a weird form of sorta-rape. Rather like if Kelley had something happen to her that gave her amnesia about the events of the past seven years, and he swooped in to court her even though he knows she wouldn’t have accepted it if she wasn’t handicapped by the lack of memories. Yeah, yeah, Kelley 2 started to become her own person, they would have grown more and more separate as they had differing experiences if they continued to exist at the same time. I still thought it was a pretty skeevy thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1286 "2019-04-23T15:26:45Z")
That’s not at all what he was going for, and I don’t think we’re meant to interpret it that way. What Ed was saying is “Look, I’m not rushing into dating her. I have reservations. I’m in love with you - the mature, older you that exists right now. You know that’s what I most want. I’m not just jumping at the chance of a younger, more naive version of you that I can easily manipulate knowing what I do. So I want to give you first crack at it. If you’ll be with me, I won’t even be interested in pursuing her. But if you won’t, well, then dating her would be the next best thing. She’s the closest thing to being back together with you that I can get, so I’ll take that if that’s the best option I have” That may have its own ethical problems, but he’s not just trying to manipulate and force the older Kelly’s hand. At least not in the sinister way you portray it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1287 "2019-04-23T15:40:24Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > …That may have its own ethical problems, but he’s not just trying to manipulate and force the older Kelly’s hand. At least not in the sinister way you portray it. Not sinister, but certainly manipulative. He shouldn’t have phrased it as he did, saying that, one way or another, he was going to try to woo a Kelly. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1288 "2019-04-23T15:41:18Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > That’s not at all what he was going for, and I don’t think we’re meant to interpret it that way. > > What Ed was saying is “Look, I’m not rushing into dating her. I have reservations. I’m in love with you - the mature, older you that exists right now. You know that’s what I most want. I’m not just jumping at the chance of a younger, more naive version of you that I can easily manipulate knowing what I do. So I want to give you first crack at it. If you’ll be with me, I won’t even be interested in pursuing her. But if you won’t, well, then dating her would be the next best thing. She’s the closest thing to being back together with you that I can get, so I’ll take that if that’s the best option I have” > > That may have its own ethical problems, but he’s not just trying to manipulate and force the older Kelly’s hand. At least not in the sinister way you portray it. I think the closest analogy is, if I can’t date you, then I’ll date your younger sister. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1289 "2019-04-23T15:58:01Z")
I don’t think that analogy works. Young Kelly it’s the same person young Ed feel in love with. It’s not as simple as her being a more naive psuedo-replacement. This situation it’s so unlike anything any of us have had to deal with that any simple analogy is going to be deeply flawed. This is one of the great things about Sci-fi. We can explore truly new ideas that aren’t just a slightly different version of things we’re familiar with. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1290 "2019-04-23T16:39:10Z")
so, in our new universe, will Capt. Grayson be in command of the Wilbur? With Admiral Ed in charge of the fleet? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1291 "2019-04-23T16:40:36Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > This is one of the great things about Sci-fi. We can explore truly new ideas that aren’t just a slightly different version of things we’re familiar with. That’s why I think TNG’s Second Chances is a similarly good episode. Especially in the question of choices “If I had gotten off the planet, I would have met you on Risa!” “but you _did_ get off the planet, and you didn’t!” In almost no other situation could a person see the exact result of a different “choice”. Since both Rikers are identical, whatever choice each individually made, it IS the choice. And if Kelly-in-the-past never dates Ed again (assuming that she did in fact have her memories wiped) then that, too, is “the choice she would have made.” It by definition can’t be a false choice. And we shall see come Thursday if the show opens with Kelly in Command of the Orville and Ed is an admiral, or something. eta: Ninja’d! ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1292 "2019-04-23T16:50:42Z")
Or possibly - Kelly is a Captain, and Ed is still struggling along as an Lt Commander or something. Like the TNG episode where Picard never gets stabbed, and his career never takes off. His marriage to Kelly inspired his drive to succeed, even though the marriage itself was destroyed by it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1293 "2019-04-23T17:02:20Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > Or possibly - Kelly is a Captain, and Ed is still struggling along as an Lt Commander or something. Like the TNG episode where Picard never gets stabbed, and his career never takes off. His marriage to Kelly inspired his drive to succeed, even though the marriage itself was destroyed by it. Excellent point! ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1294 "2019-04-23T17:57:42Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Excellent point! Except that his career was then destroyed by the divorce. He only got to Captain the Orville this time because Kelly intervened with Daddy Admiral. So, its entirely possible that being dumped early on by Kelly puts Ed on an even brighter path and Kelly is no longer held back (not sure how she was held back in the first round, except that she chose to join Ed iniitially and then stayed on because they were a good team). ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1295 "2019-04-23T19:55:32Z")
I would love it so much if the timeline was randomly corrected by a toddler and talking dog that spontaneously appear on a disc thingy. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1296 "2019-04-23T21:51:38Z")
Yes, and maybe Dr. Finn can end up as chief surgeon at St. Eligius. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1297 "2019-04-23T22:18:59Z")
Well, we all know that this “show” is all just a fantasy/novel of an overworked, underappreciated 1940s science fiction writer. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1298 "2019-04-24T02:53:17Z")
All of you have it wrong. The final scene shows Ed with a toothbrush mustache and Kelly as Eva Braun. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1299 "2019-04-24T11:35:07Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Logically, the next episode should have Kelly as the commander and Ed as her second-in-command. And at the end, Ed leaves the series, either by getting a promotion to commander or by dying. I could imagine Macfarlane wanting to cut back. Someone else already mentioned this down-thread, but I don’t see this logic. Ed was apparently a fast-tracked, rising star until his divorce ruined him. And while the marriage may have given him a boost of some sort, one of the reasons for the divorce was his spending too much time on his career. So, not spending two years or so as an emotional wreck would probably see him farther along, not held back. Whether Kelly would have made captain already is harder to say - we don’t know how the divorce affected her. AIUI, her infidelity in the modern armed services would be a black mark, but we don’t know how the Union feels about that. It doesn’t seem with in her character to have subordinated her career to Ed’s, but it’s possible that desires for posting keeping them somewhat close together may have led to more opportunities for Ed then her. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966/1300 "2019-04-24T14:06:19Z")
Are we certain this is the same universe? Maybe it is a new timeline, and then, with her additional knowledge about what’s going to happen, Past Kelly will be in a position to return and help the old timeline’s Orville against the Kaylon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=64) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-season-2/826966.md?page=66)