# The Orville-Seth McFarlane **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814 "2017-05-17T03:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1001 "2017-10-16T20:01:56Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > This episode’s plot relied on a critical reference to something that happened in Episode 1. I think the showrunners are more ambitious than you give them credit for. They could go either way; Mercer is a great hero who brought back a Krell ship, or he is a screw up who began a war. Captain Sidney Smith, for example, negotiated a French surrender in Egypt, but the government was angry with him because they didn’t get to kill a bunch of French guys. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1002 "2017-10-16T20:56:32Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I found the concern for the children over the top. I realize now that this is sort of a rejection of the “grimdark” trend of sci-fi, so we want our heroes to be squeaky clean, but the idea that a military officer would risk a successful test of a superweapon and 100,000 lives lost on a friendly colony to save some kids is totally implausible and, quite frankly, really stupid. And then it makes even less sense to send the kids back at the end. I guess that was the warm fuzzy ending we required - but on a practical level it only tells the enemy what you’ve done - you’ve gave them notice that you’ve stolen some of their technology and you know about their plans to escalate the war and their superweapon. > > Instead, there’s an obvious opportunity to raise the kids yourself, learn about their culture, and potentially, when they understand humans better, use them as the bridge for communication and peace you’re looking for. I don’t think saving the kids is entirely “squeaky clean.” The _Orville_’s officers have already had multiple close encounters with species that consider Union member species inferior\* and they’re probably a bit sick of it. By saving the young Krill, they not only salve their consciences, they send a message to the Krill: “We could have just been the inferior savage species you think us anyhow and killed everyone aboard your ship. We didn’t. We chose to save the youths, even at some risk to ourselves. What does your philosophy/religion say about that?! Think about that the next time you’re stabbing a skull. :p” Saving but keeping them doesn’t have the full rhetorical impact of sending them back. Krill propaganda could fill in all sorts of horrors if the Krill youths were kept in Union custody. “You didn’t save them out of mercy, but to exploit them” would merely be the most polite. ☹ Sending the youths back robs the Krill propagandists of that spin and is a Union hearts-and-minds coup. Plus I don’t see much success in keeping the youth to “use them as the bridge for communication and peace.” The more the youths are military cadets, the less likely they will willingly adapt to or adopt Union culture and values in Union custody. The younger and more malleable they are, the more likely the Krill are to consider them merely brainwashed Union minds in Krill bodies. \*One of them is a bridge officer. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1003 "2017-10-16T21:24:44Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > they send a message to the Krill: "We could have just been the inferior savage species you think us anyhow and killed everyone aboard your ship. We didn’t. We chose to save the youths, even at some risk to ourselves. What does your philosophy/religion say about that?! “You obviously did not want to murder the children of a superior species.” “You fear the Krill too much to murder their children.” “Even an inferior species can recognize the superiority of the Krill.” The first three that come to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1004 "2017-10-16T21:53:06Z")
The first that came to mind for me is Krill considering not killing the trainees as a sign of their inferiority. ‘If they’re not willing to wipe out their enemies just because they’re young, they’re obviously weak and useless.’ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1005 "2017-10-16T23:08:05Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The first that came to mind for me is Krill considering not killing the trainees as a sign of their inferiority. > > ‘If they’re not willing to wipe out their enemies just because they’re young, they’re obviously weak and useless.’ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1006 "2017-10-16T23:23:36Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The first that came to mind for me is Krill considering not killing the trainees as a sign of their inferiority. > > ‘If they’re not willing to wipe out their enemies just because they’re young, they’re obviously weak and useless.’ Or, “Leaving the children as witnesses to the deaths of everyone else is an obvious terrorist tactic, intended to intimidate.” ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1007 "2017-10-16T23:32:32Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The first that came to mind for me is Krill considering not killing the trainees as a sign of their inferiority. > > ‘If they’re not willing to wipe out their enemies just because they’re young, they’re obviously weak and useless.’ You know the Krill seemed awfully nice to each other. They seemed to be pretty patient with disguised Mercer and Malloy who were acting like total morons. The scene where the Avis priest expressed his concerns to the Krill captain was friendlier than I expected. Usually military and religious leaders are in opposition to each other in SciFi. The captain was a like ‘Your friendship with me has earned you some leeway. Do your investigation.’ If this show was about the Krill ships then those two would be the Kirk and Bones of the series. The teacher was nice and seemed gentle with her pupils. That guard that got knocked out by Mercer was genuinely exited by the thought of a black velvet painting of Avis. There was very little internal security on-board which suggest high trust among their species. They didin’t get violent with Malloy until it was revealed he was human. You know, apart from the fanaticism and genocidal tendencies, the Krill seemed alright. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Yes. > I was thinking about why they had lights that would do that. My fanwank: If the Krill are that sensitive to UV-radiation then logic would suggest that other life-forms on their planet are also. They use the lights to disinfect the ship during servicing. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1008 "2017-10-16T23:35:58Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > You know the Krill seemed awfully nice to each other. They seemed to be pretty patient with disguised Mercer and Malloy who were acting like total morons. The scene where the Avis priest expressed his concerns to the Krill captain was friendlier than I expected. Usually military and religious leaders are in opposition to each other in SciFi. The captain was a like ‘Your friendship with me has earned you some leeway. Do your investigation.’ If this show was about the Krill ships then those two would be the Kirk and Bones of the series. The teacher was nice and seemed gentle with her pupils. That guard that got knocked out by Mercer was genuinely exited by the thought of a black velvet painting of Avis. There was very little internal security on-board which suggest high trust among their species. They didin’t get violent with Malloy until it was revealed he was human. > > You know, apart from the fanaticism and genocidal tendencies, the Krill seemed alright. Yeah. In the first episode, the Krill captain provided sympathetic marital advice, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1009 "2017-10-17T01:17:42Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > “You obviously did not want to murder the children of a superior species.” > > “You fear the Krill too much to murder their children.” > > “Even an inferior species can recognize the superiority of the Krill.” > > The first three that come to mind. And that’s what I’m liking about this show. They’re making it clear that life is more complicated than a simplistic “Do the right thing and it’ll all work out” philosophy. More than once we’ve seen the crew make what they thought was the right choice, and either not win, or be faced with it maybe coming back to bite them later. In this episode, Mercer clearly had no good choice - kill the kids too, and prove that humans are just evil, as the Krill assume we are, and live with the guilt, or let them live, and possibly just reinforce the Krill’s opinions in the next generation. You can make a legitimate case that either option was the “correct” one, without too much of a stretch either way. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > Or, “Leaving the children as witnesses to the deaths of everyone else is an obvious terrorist tactic, intended to intimidate.” Well, we do have a tradition of “leave one alive as a warning to the others”…maybe the Krill have a point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1010 "2017-10-17T01:21:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > :rolleyes: > Qur’an is revelation. The book is not a “sacred artifact”. You get pocket Qur’an’s, online Qur’ans etc. But for the majority of the life of the Catholic church–over a thousand years–people were not encouraged to have and read individual Bibles. > [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > You know the Krill seemed awfully nice to each other. They seemed to be pretty patient with disguised Mercer and Malloy who were acting like total morons. The scene where the Avis priest expressed his concerns to the Krill captain was friendlier than I expected. Usually military and religious leaders are in opposition to each other in SciFi. The captain was a like ‘Your friendship with me has earned you some leeway. Do your investigation.’ If this show was about the Krill ships then those two would be the Kirk and Bones of the series. The teacher was nice and seemed gentle with her pupils. That guard that got knocked out by Mercer was genuinely exited by the thought of a black velvet painting of Avis. There was very little internal security on-board which suggest high trust among their species. They didin’t get violent with Malloy until it was revealed he was human. > > You know, apart from the fanaticism and genocidal tendencies, the Krill seemed alright. Yes, good points–and I’d add the cute kid who was curious about humans. I think we are meant to take them as a culture which has been made worse by its fundamentalist religion, and which could have potential to come around. > [@RickJay](#): > > This episode’s plot relied on a critical reference to something that happened in Episode 1. I think the showrunners are more ambitious than you give them credit for. Indeed. I thought they referenced something from a later episode as well, but I can’t think of what it was. > [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Also, wouldn’t Mercer now be the hero of the Union. The mission was a rousing success and prevented a huge catastrophe. Even if the whole thing would be classified, the brass should be changing their minds about him being washed-up and move Mercer to bigger and better things. Great point. > [@terentii](#): > > Drink soda pop while on duty. I’d like to see an episode where a 32 oz cup gets spilled all over the navigation console and blows every circuit. Now, now: Mercer told him he had to keep it below the console. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Naw. They should have kept the kids and used them as guinea pigs to test bioweapons against the krill. > > What? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1011 "2017-10-17T01:35:34Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > You know the Krill seemed awfully nice to each other. They seemed to be pretty patient with disguised Mercer and Malloy who were acting like total morons. The scene where the Avis priest expressed his concerns to the Krill captain was friendlier than I expected. Usually military and religious leaders are in opposition to each other in SciFi. The captain was a like ‘Your friendship with me has earned you some leeway. Do your investigation.’ If this show was about the Krill ships then those two would be the Kirk and Bones of the series. The teacher was nice and seemed gentle with her pupils. That guard that got knocked out by Mercer was genuinely exited by the thought of a black velvet painting of Avis. There was very little internal security on-board which suggest high trust among their species. They didin’t get violent with Malloy until it was revealed he was human. > > You know, apart from the fanaticism and genocidal tendencies, the Krill seemed alright. Sort of like the British in India? ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1012 "2017-10-17T01:48:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Sort of like the British in India? I know you mean this to be snide, but I was born in a country that had gotten its independence from Britain only a little more than a decade earlier, and went back there for part of high school and have kept tabs since. I don’t have the impression they’ve improved the country in the independent era–more the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1013 "2017-10-17T02:14:09Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > You know, apart from the fanaticism and genocidal tendencies, the Krill seemed alright. Right. Just like Hitler was at heart an artist, Goering loved cats, and Goebbels was a fine and dutiful father. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1014 "2017-10-17T02:44:41Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Look, I like the show. When it concentrates on the plot and serious characterization, it’s quite good. And every so often, the jokes actually connect. > > But ‘we addicted the aliens to reality TV!’ and ‘the alien god has the same name as a car rental place!’ are the level of the vast majority of the jokes, and they frequently swamp the good parts. Jokes that don’t land was always a part of Trek though. Data has some misunderstanding about human emotions, Riker and LaForge smile at each other, some jaunty flute music plays for a few seconds to let you know that that was _supposed_ to be funny… So I’m fine with them swinging and missing, especially given that they also hit much more than Trek did: every episode I’ve laughed out loud a couple times. I will say though that they linger on bad jokes too long sometimes. “Avis” was used at least 3, maybe 4 separate times? I hope they never mention it again in their dealings with the Krill. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1015 "2017-10-17T04:23:23Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > “Avis” was used at least 3, maybe 4 separate times? When you’re Number 2, you try harder. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1016 "2017-10-17T05:11:32Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Jokes that don’t land was always a part of Trek though. > Data has some misunderstanding about human emotions, Riker and LaForge smile at each other, some jaunty flute music plays for a few seconds to let you know that that was _supposed_ to be funny… > > So I’m fine with them swinging and missing, especially given that they also hit much more than Trek did: every episode I’ve laughed out loud a couple times. > > I will say though that they linger on bad jokes too long sometimes. “Avis” was used at least 3, maybe 4 separate times? > I hope they never mention it again in their dealings with the Krill. Excessive repetition has always been a Seth McFarlane watermark. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1017 "2017-10-17T09:55:24Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Jokes that don’t land was always a part of Trek though. > Data has some misunderstanding about human emotions, Riker and LaForge smile at each other, some jaunty flute music plays for a few seconds to let you know that that was _supposed_ to be funny… But that’s not what’s going on with The Orville. Only a handful of episodes of Trek - across all 5 series - have been as unrelentingly jokey as The Orville, and only a handful of those have had the humour fall as consistently flat. I was going to say The Orville is an entire series of Profit and Lace, but that’s not fair - Profit and Lace would have been total crap even if they’d played it seriously, or hired a competent joke writer. Honestly, I can’t think of a good comparison in Trek. TNG might have one, but since only the middle seasons are watchable, I haven’t rewatched it recently. But Trek’s humour episodes either fall flat entirely, both on plot and on humour (Profit and Lace), or have a pretty solid hit/miss ratio on the jokes. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1018 "2017-10-17T11:10:01Z")
I too would prefer a somewhat lower ratio of jokey stuff. But on the other hand, some of the comedy has been inspired: the video game in the pilot, the terrible tasting food in the colony ship, the practical joke of cutting off the leg. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1019 "2017-10-17T11:15:44Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I know you mean this to be snide, but I was born in a country that had gotten its independence from Britain only a little more than a decade earlier, and went back there for part of high school and have kept tabs since. I don’t have the impression they’ve improved the country in the independent era–more the opposite. Half snide, I guess. I was surprised to learn that one of the US aims after WWII was dismembering the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1020 "2017-10-17T12:21:14Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > Excessive repetition has always been a Seth McFarlane watermark. How you uh, how you comin’ on that novel you’re working on? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=52)