# The Orville-Seth McFarlane **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814 "2017-05-17T03:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 55
**Author:** ![BobBitchin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ea924/32.png) [@BobBitchin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobBitchin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1081 "2017-10-28T00:28:18Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > It’s probably easier to get into the feed than the vote system. But you’d think not that much harder with an approximate five century advantage. > > Anyway, the latest episode reminded me of all the episodes of Star Trek over the years I’ve never really liked. Same reason I could never really get into Sliders. All the subtlety of a brick. I think it was more than a 5 century advantage, Issac did the hacking and they describe him as a super advanced artificial life form. I loved this episode, and I’ve now fallen for this show. I really hope it goes on and on. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1082 "2017-10-28T01:50:16Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > MacFarlane clearly took this from the _Black Mirror_ episodes “Nosedive” and “Hated in the Nation.” There was absolutely no way it could have been anywhere near as good. And it wasn’t. > > Still, it wasn’t bad overall. I was reminded of the Community episode with MeowMeowBeenz. A pretty good episode; much better than one first season episode of TNG when Wesley fell afoul of a planet’s local laws. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1083 "2017-10-28T01:57:46Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > MacFarlane clearly took this from the _Black Mirror_ episodes “Nosedive” and “Hated in the Nation.” There was absolutely no way it could have been anywhere near as good. And it wasn’t. > > Still, it wasn’t bad overall. You mean the idea of social media and likes and dislikes originated with that show? :dubious::dubious::dubious: ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1084 "2017-10-28T02:05:28Z")
> [@BobBitchin](#): > > I loved this episode, and I’ve now fallen for this show. I really hope it goes on and on. I haven’t watched it yet. Apparently no one else liked it. They are going to beat you up and steal your lunch money. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1085 "2017-10-28T02:08:31Z")
A weak episode, the two main problems being: 1. Yes it was just like the two Black Mirror episodes last season, but less well done. Having to wear a badge, and (usually) pressing the badge is inherently silly, and made it look like a [planet of hats](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats), rather than seamless and believable as it was on BM. 2. There’s no hope for LaMarr as a character: this episode focused on him and there is still nothing likeable about him at all. If you’re going to write a character that is a boorish black stereotype, then you’d need someone of the caliber of Samuel L Jackson to pull it off and still be charming. I don’t think this actor is particularly bad; especially considering it’s one of his first gigs, but it’s asking too much of him. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1086 "2017-10-28T02:25:57Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I don’t think this actor is particularly bad; especially considering it’s one of his first gigs, but it’s asking too much of him. Perhaps they will kill him off, falling into a pool of black mucilage. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1087 "2017-10-28T02:39:25Z")
The barista sure looked nice lying in bed in her nightie or whatever it was! Yum. 😃 As for viewership and the show’s chances for renewal, “Orville” is actually building on its lead-in, up 33% from “Gotham”, and was the third-highest rated scripted show on all networks combined last night, not just in its time slot but for the whole evening (only _Will and Grace_ on NBC and _Grey’s Anatomy_ on ABC were higher). If it maintains these kinds of numbers it will be a shoo-in to get another season. > [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > One upvote for tonight’s episode. Nice. Too bad upvotes seemed irrelevant though? 😕 > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > -What about the people walking around with hundreds of thousands of downvotes from youthful offenses? If their original transgressions didn’t get them to 10 million, shouldn’t their numbers be reset? Otherwise, what’s the point of being “acquitted”? LaMarr says “y’all suck ass!” on his way out of the correction chamber. What if four of the guards take offense to that and give him four downvotes, putting him at 10 million? Does that put him back in for correction? They said it was before time expired, but that is inconsistent as you point out. (And seriously: upvotes should erase downvotes, right?) > [@SenorBeef](#): > > That said, it did a pretty solid job with the premise (not as good as MeowMeowBeanz, of course) and was entertaining enough. Oh, that’s right–I forgot about MeowMeowBeanz! So everyone complaining that this rips off the allegedly original “Nosedive” has to accept that \*Community \*actually did it first. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1088 "2017-10-28T04:28:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Nice. Too bad upvotes seemed irrelevant though? 😕 I am guessing each Up canceled a down, which made sense, given how the counts ran. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1089 "2017-10-28T07:21:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You mean the idea of social media and likes and dislikes originated with that show? :dubious::dubious::dubious: That’s not at all what he means, as you well know. I’m on board with the show ripping plotlines from Star Trek TOS and TNG: it’s been a long time since those aired, and there’s an opportunity to re-present those ideas as relevant to the current times. Even if it’s done as a quasi-humorous sketch, rather than an in-depth treatment. However, it is f\*ing stupid to rip off ideas that _Black Mirror_ just did, and did masterfully. It just highlights _The Orville_ as shallow and bereft of originality. This episode would probably have been written soon after the _Black Mirror_ season that “Nosedive” was in; it’s fairly obvious where Seth stole the idea from. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1090 "2017-10-28T12:48:14Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > A weak episode, the two main problems being: > > 1. Yes it was just like the two Black Mirror episodes last season, but less well done. Having to wear a badge, and (usually) pressing the badge is inherently silly, and made it look like a [planet of hats](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlanetOfHats), rather than seamless and believable as it was on BM. > > 2. There’s no hope for LaMarr as a character: this episode focused on him and there is still nothing likeable about him at all. If you’re going to write a character that is a boorish black stereotype, then you’d need someone of the caliber of Samuel L Jackson to pull it off and still be charming. > I don’t think this actor is particularly bad; especially considering it’s one of his first gigs, but it’s asking too much of him. 1. Thing is Star Trek had many Planet of Hats, one of the funniest episodes was probably the ultimate planet of hats, “A Piece of the Action” where the planet emulated the Hollywood version of gangland prohibition Chicago based on one large book left behind. The problem with this show is they did not pull it off well or honestly have enough humor. 2. They should be able to fix the character, this could be the incident that makes him wise up a bit. They have clearly established that neither the Navigator or Helmsman should ever be allowed off the ship again however. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1091 "2017-10-28T16:57:38Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > That’s not at all what he means, as you well know. > > I’m on board with the show ripping plotlines from Star Trek TOS and TNG: it’s been a long time since those aired, and there’s an opportunity to re-present those ideas as relevant to the current times. Even if it’s done as a quasi-humorous sketch, rather than an in-depth treatment. > > However, it is f\*ing stupid to rip off ideas that _Black Mirror_ just did, and did masterfully. It just highlights _The Orville_ as shallow and bereft of originality. This episode would probably have been written soon after the _Black Mirror_ season that “Nosedive” was in; it’s fairly obvious where Seth stole the idea from. Not many people have seen Black Mirror. This actually played out like a ToS episode, now up to date with “Like/dislike” from social media as the background. There’s no reason at all to assume that they knew about those Black Mirror episodes, and in any case, Black mirror then ripped off Community. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1092 "2017-10-28T18:51:04Z")
I wouldn’t say it was rip off of Black Mirror just a story in a similar thought space. It was also classic Trek morality play. A Planet “just like ours” shines alight on modern life. Something hidden inside Star Trek (and lost a bit today) is in a lot of ways the shows were anthologies where each planet could tell a completely different story with the same characters. I’m glad the Orville dipped its toe in that water. Sure it was heavy handed but I found that funny. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1093 "2017-10-28T20:26:38Z")
I think that the “Sliders” ep I referenced earlier, where the audience decides the innocence or guilt of criminals, is an earlier example. > **[Dead Man Sliding](https://sliders.fandom.com/wiki/Dead_Man_Sliding)** > > The sliders arrive on a world where the legal system has been reformed as live game shows, with the viewing public able to decide who is guilty and innocent. Quinn is mistaken for his criminal double and brought to trial on The Judgement Game. Wade... ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1094 "2017-10-28T20:47:34Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I think that the “Sliders” ep I referenced earlier, where the audience decides the innocence or guilt of criminals, is an earlier example. > > [Dead Man Sliding | Sliders Wiki | Fandom](http://sliders.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Man_Sliding) “Zap Thy Neighbor” by James Hogan is another example - this one in printed SF. “A Change of Mind” - an episode of The Prisoner from the 1960s has a mob-based justice system that decides if people are “unmutual”; people who are judged to be “unmutual” are lobotomized. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1095 "2017-10-28T20:59:31Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > I think that the “Sliders” ep I referenced earlier, where the audience decides the innocence or guilt of criminals, is an earlier example. > > [Dead Man Sliding | Sliders Wiki | Fandom](http://sliders.wikia.com/wiki/Dead_Man_Sliding) Yeah, I forgot this one. So, Black Mirror “ripped off” Sliders and Community. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1096 "2017-10-29T11:48:48Z")
All I was saying was that BM did this recently, and better. If they didn’t copy it, then they were just unlucky, as the comparison makes some of the flaws with the premise here more noticeable. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1097 "2017-10-29T15:28:35Z")
There was also some similarity to the TNG episode where Wesley was going to be killed for walking on the lawn. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1098 "2017-10-29T15:47:19Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > There was also some similarity to the TNG episode where Wesley was going to be killed for walking on the lawn. As mentioned here [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20566362&postcount=1082](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20566362&postcount=1082) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1099 "2017-10-29T17:29:05Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > All I was saying was that BM did this recently, and better. If they didn’t copy it, then they were just unlucky, as the comparison makes some of the flaws with the premise here more noticeable. Yes, but **Lightray** called it a “rip off”. :rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1100 "2017-10-29T18:19:54Z")
Its not like this particular social issue - social media, etc - is not a current phenomenon or even one that hasn’t been brewing for some time now. it’s entirely plausible for various writers and shows to come up with similar plotlines without any awareness of others. This happens quite often these days. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=54) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=56)