# The Orville-Seth McFarlane **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 17, 2017, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814 "2017-05-17T03:28:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1361 "2017-11-29T16:11:01Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I would feel much more comfortable if MacFarlane had gotten the rights to do a Star Trek spin off. Did\* Galaxy Quest\* get the rights? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1362 "2017-11-30T05:42:27Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did\* Galaxy Quest\* get the rights? :dubious: Irrelevant. _Galaxy Quest_ is a spoof, a parody, which gives it protection. _The Orville_ is not, as many media outlets have noted: [The Hollywood Reporter’s Dan Fienberg:](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/orville-review-1035584) > [@](#): > > Seth MacFarlane’s Fox sci-fi series ‘The Orville’ is an earnest, rarely effective ‘Star Trek’-inspired dramedy, not a ‘Family Guy’-style sitcom or a ‘Galaxy Quest’ parody hybrid.[…] > > There are no tongues in the cheeks of _The Orville_. It’s the work of a fan of \*Star Trek \*trying to make a _Star Trek_ show, without any of that pesky darkness or edginess modern audiences might expect. And also without paying anything, other than clear respect, to the Roddenberry estate. From Joseph A. Porro’s crew costumes to John Debney’s score to the tremendous makeup team to the mission/alien-of-the-week episodic structure, the primary note on every creative decision was presumably either “Make it more _Star Trek_” or, after a while, just a wink and, “You know what to do.” [Vox’s Caroline Framke:](https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/8/16267782/the-orville-seth-macfarlane-review-lol-what) > [@](#): > > _The Orville_ is not, as it turns out, the _Galaxy Quest_-style spoof Fox has been selling in its ads.[…] > When confronted with the striking similarities between the two shows at this summer’s Television Critics Association press tour, MacFarlane spoke vaguely about how both _The Orville_ and _Star Trek_ “sprang from a lot of different sci-fi tropes that came before.” He chalked the similarities up to _The Orville_ following in the footsteps of _Star Trek’s_ “forward thinking, aspirational, optimistic place in science fiction.” He talked about his love of _Star Trek_ while carefully tiptoeing around outright admitting how much he borrowed. > > But watching even a single minute of the show makes MacFarlane’s inspiration obvious. From the Orville crew’s uniforms, to the Klingon-esque “Krill” alien species, to the episodes fading to black at every commercial break, _The Orville_ is, as my colleague Todd VanDerWerff puts it, just “Seth MacFarlane filing the serial numbers off _Star Trek_.” [TVLine’s Dave Nemetz:](http://tvline.com/2017/09/05/the-orville-review-fox-seth-macfarlane-sci-fi-outer-space/) > [@](#): > > Are you expecting Seth MacFarlane’s new Fox series _The Orville_ to be a fun _Star Trek_ parody packed with wall-to-wall jokes? Two words of advice: Abandon ship. > Despite what Fox’s official site claims, _The Orville_ — premiering this Sunday at 8/7c — is not a “hilarious comedy.” It’s not even a comedy. [IndieWire’s Liz Shannon Miller:](http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/the-orville-review-seth-macfarlane-star-trek-rip-off-1201874080/) > [@](#): > > Based on the trailer, the assumption was that Seth MacFarlane was doing a “Star Trek” parody, a la “Galaxy Quest” — theoretically not an annoying notion, especially since “Galaxy Quest” was a great movie. > > But the most shocking fact about “The Orville for most people is that it’s an hour long, and fundamentally uninterested in being a comedy.[…] > > After watching the actual show, its intentions became clear: Seth wanted to cosplay being captain of the U.S.S. Enterprise. And Fox let him do it.[…] > > Many talented people, above and below the line, rose up from the “Trek” ranks. Funnily enough, some of them work on “The Orville.” This is a list of people involved with “The Orville” who also worked on at least one iteration of “Star Trek”: > > Penny Johnson Jerald, “Orville” series regular > Brannon Braga, “Orville” executive producer > David A. Goodman, “Orville” executive producer > James L. Conway, “Orville” director > Jonathan Frakes, “Orville” director > Robert Duncan McNeill, “Orville” director > John Debney, “Orville” composer > Thus, one shouldn’t be surprised that the music sounds like vintage “Star Trek.” That the act breaks fade to black, just like vintage “Star Trek.” That vintage “Star Trek” is an inescapable aspect of this series… because that’s all it aspires to be.[…] > > MacFarlane has created “‘Star Trek,’ except with ‘an Average Joe’ at the helm and all the technical names changed.”[…] > > The headline above invokes three different ways the show is bankrupt: creatively, morally, and ethically. The lack of creativity is clear, given how it takes the basic framework of a “Trek” series and files off the serial numbers. But morally, it’s hard to imagine how anyone involved with this project could be comfortable with walking onto that set, watching those episodes, and seeing how blatant the imitation is. And ethically, it’s frustrating to see that the systems put into place to keep creators from ripping others off in such a blatant manner failed here. (One comeback someone might be able to aim at Miller is that it seems likely she at least subconsciously lifted the “serial numbers” line from VanDerWerff, who tweeted that jibe a full month before she posted this review.) I can’t really argue with her, which is why although I have greatly enjoyed nine of the ten episodes, I feel a little guilty about doing so, a bit dirty. Roddenberry’s estate is definitely getting ripped off. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1363 "2017-11-30T06:51:28Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Irrelevant. _Galaxy Quest_ is a spoof, a parody, which gives it protection. _The Orville_ is not, as many media outlets have noted: > > [The Hollywood Reporter’s Dan Fienberg:](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/orville-review-1035584) > > [Vox’s Caroline Framke:](https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/9/8/16267782/the-orville-seth-macfarlane-review-lol-what) > > [TVLine’s Dave Nemetz:](http://tvline.com/2017/09/05/the-orville-review-fox-seth-macfarlane-sci-fi-outer-space/) > > [IndieWire’s Liz Shannon Miller:](http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/the-orville-review-seth-macfarlane-star-trek-rip-off-1201874080/) > > (One comeback someone might be able to aim at Miller is that it seems likely she at least subconsciously lifted the “serial numbers” line from VanDerWerff, who tweeted that jibe a full month before she posted this review.) > > I can’t really argue with her, which is why although I have greatly enjoyed nine of the ten episodes, I feel a little guilty about doing so, a bit dirty. Roddenberry’s estate is definitely getting ripped off. Bunch of killjoys. Orville is a great series, well told, and much more interesting than the actual new Star Trek series Discovery. Macfarlane has done something impressive: he and his people have captured the spirit of Trek while coming up with some original premises. Well done. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1364 "2017-11-30T09:48:57Z")
I don’t let useless “critics” tell me what I should think of a TV show. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1365 "2017-11-30T09:51:53Z")
Well I think it’s a good jumping off point for thinking about what copyright should cover, and how long it should last. If the actual stories all reminded me of specific trek episodes, then there might be a problem, but they don’t. If they’ve copied anything it’s something of the set dressing and tone of the show and frankly I think those things should be fair game by now. IOW, even if it’s legally wrong, I don’t consider it morally so in any sense. I remain dumbfounded by the reviews, but at least I can now see part of it is that they were anticipating something else. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1366 "2017-11-30T10:22:21Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Well I think it’s a good jumping off point for thinking about what copyright should cover, and how long it should last. > > If the actual stories all reminded me of specific trek episodes, then there might be a problem, but they don’t. > If they’ve copied anything it’s something of the set dressing and tone of the show and frankly I think those things should be fair game by now. IOW, even if it’s legally wrong, I don’t consider it morally so in any sense. > > I remain dumbfounded by the reviews, but at least I can now see part of it is that they were anticipating something else. I didn’t see parallels to individual episodes either. But although I have seen every episode of the original series, I’ve only seen maybe 150-200 episodes of the past 30 years of Trek (about a quarter of the total, IIRC), including only about a dozen episodes of TNG. Over at the episode threads at Jammer’s Reviews, there are many fans with encyclopedic knowledge of all of Trek, and they report quite a few very familiar plots. Again, it’s one of my favorite shows currently airing, but I feel a little icky about my enjoyment, like I’m watching porn and I know the girl is 17 but I’m just going with it because she’s so hot. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1367 "2017-11-30T10:45:51Z")
Erm…ok ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1368 "2017-11-30T13:09:55Z")
Enjoying The Orville is like watching illegal porn? WTH? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1369 "2017-11-30T13:24:59Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I can’t really argue with her, which is why although I have greatly enjoyed nine of the ten episodes, I feel a little guilty about doing so, a bit dirty. Roddenberry’s estate is definitely getting ripped off. Roddenberry’s estate has been ripped off with every progressively darker, progressively grittier adaptation of his optimistic and primary-colored universe. The best thing about The Orville is watching what happens when the show is run by somebody whose first goal is paying deep and heartfelt respect to the source material. I’m going to ignore your other analogy because it’s really gross. As for the critics, screw 'em. The gulf between the critics and the fans (21% and 93% respectively on RT) should tell you everything you need to know about their perceptions. MacFarlane asked to do a real Star Trek and got turned down, so Fox let him do his own version instead. And guess what? It turns out he knew **exactly** what fans wanted. Star Trek. Not a generic modern space drama with a Trek-flavored candy coating. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1370 "2017-11-30T13:48:53Z")
Watching The Orville is like robbing convenience stores when you really know that you shouldn’t be robbing convenience stores, but you love the rush. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1371 "2017-11-30T14:10:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > MacFarlane asked to do a real Star Trek and got turned down, so Fox let him do his own version instead. And guess what? It turns out he knew **exactly** what fans wanted. Star Trek. Not a generic modern space drama with a Trek-flavored candy coating. I agree with every jot and tittle of what you wrote in the part I quoted. And I really loved the first nine episodes of this series and despite the one hiccup I’m sure I will see many more that I love, because I’m not going to stop watching. But I still don’t feel comfortable with the idea that if someone wants to license intellectual property to do their take on it, and the owner of that property says no, it’s OK for them to just do it anyway. At least not for profit. But then I’m pretty picky about this issue. For instance, I have never illegally downloaded or torrented music, movies, or TV shows. I believe it is morally wrong to do so, and I have been known to call people out for it in comment sections. So for me to continue to watch this show despite my reservations is actually as far on the dark side of this issue as you will ever find me. I would refuse to watch on principle if I just mildly liked the show. It’s precisely how much I like it that keeps me watching despite my qualms. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1372 "2017-11-30T14:12:14Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > For instance, I have never illegally downloaded or torrented music, movies, or TV shows. Where does one get porn with 17 year-olds in them then? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1373 "2017-11-30T14:21:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > MacFarlane asked to do a real Star Trek and got turned down, so Fox let him do his own version instead. And guess what? It turns out he knew **exactly** what fans wanted. Star Trek. Not a generic modern space drama with a Trek-flavored candy coating. what I like about The Orville (and keep in mind, I generally liked ST:TNG as well) is that the characters interact in ways familiar to us. most people know at least a couple of guys who act like Lamarr and Malloy do with each other. most of us know someone who has a high level of self-doubt like Alara. Mercer and Grayson’s occasional bickering- while played up- is at least believable as an ex-couple. Roddenberry, I think, went too far in assuming humans would become more “Vulcan-like;” less flawed, less emotional, and long past our petty differences and wars with each other. Besides, he just replaced human conflict with fighting alien races which were basically stand-ins for various human cultures anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1374 "2017-11-30T14:51:47Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Where does one get porn with 17 year-olds in them then? I wouldn’t know. I get my porn legally. > [@jz78817](#): > > Roddenberry, I think, went too far in assuming humans would become more “Vulcan-like;” less flawed, less emotional, and long past our petty differences and wars with each other. This may be a fair critique of the new generation of Star Trek shows, but TOS characters Kirk and McCoy were very emotional. “He knows, Doctor. He knows.” ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1375 "2017-11-30T15:45:49Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Roddenberry, I think, went too far in assuming humans would become more “Vulcan-like;” less flawed, less emotional, and long past our petty differences and wars with each other. In terms of conflict though, humans have learned to live peacefully for the most part. We live in cities of millions, it wouldn’t be sustainable if every one of us were waiting for the chance to get medieval, or if the murder rate was anything like the historical data. Also, for the kind of time frames that Star Trek is based in we’ll probably be modifying the human genome and/or augmenting our neurology (and aggressive impulses will be one of the first things we’d want to bin). In many ways the humans in ST are far too much like late 20th / early 21st century humans because it would be incredibly hard to write a compelling, relateable drama otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1376 "2017-11-30T15:50:27Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Also, for the kind of time frames that Star Trek is based in we’ll probably be modifying the human genome and/or augmenting our neurology (and aggressive impulses will be one of the first things we’d want to bin). Not in the Trek universe, at any rate. That’s what the Eugenics Wars were all about. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1377 "2017-11-30T15:56:52Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Not in the Trek universe, at any rate. That’s what the Eugenics Wars were all about. Good point. I recall from DS9 that it is illegal to manipulate genes in the Federation. One wonders if it is done for medical reasons. Dr. Bashir’s parents modified his illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1378 "2017-11-30T16:20:01Z")
They only had to do it illegally, because any form of genetic manipulation was illegal. (This has been a minor plot point in Discovery.) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1379 "2017-11-30T17:26:09Z")
If you read my thread in MPSIMS you’ll see that I’ve pretty much been out of touch with the world in general for the last couple of months. I have been trying to get caught up on The Orville. This thread is too long to read so forgive me if I repeat what others have said. I am really enjoying it. It’s drama with some humor thrown in. Some of the humor works, and a good deal of it falls flat, which is okay by me since overall I’m finding it very entertaining. I’ve lost interest in the new Star Trek but I look forward to each new episode of The Orville. I think the best joke so far was the tease of Bortus singing being interupted by an alert. I want to here Bortus sing dammit! ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814/1380 "2017-11-30T17:31:55Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > This may be a fair critique of the new generation of Star Trek shows, but TOS characters Kirk and McCoy were very emotional. “He knows, Doctor. He knows.” I take your point, but emotionally they were just less stoic than Spock. And of course the occasional “you green-blooded, inhuman…” bit from McCoy. But as far as the rest of the main cast went, most of the time they might as well have been props (something that cause a festering resentment from them towards Shatner.) I’m thinking more along the lines of things such as Grayson getting totally flustered with the crewman in the elevator and _shouting_ “I’m sorry, but do you just ride up and down the fricking elevator all day?!? Is that your fricking _job_?!?!?!” I don’t recall any stuff like that in ST. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-orville-seth-mcfarlane/786814.md?page=70)