# The Oscars and Race **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 25, 2002, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978 "2002-03-25T08:06:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MelCthefirst](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@MelCthefirst](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MelCthefirst)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/21 "2002-03-25T20:46:48Z")
Why are you even debating it. I’m interested this year because New Zealand had such a strong presence, more than ever before. This morning on the BBC news they were saying that Lord of the Rings should have won (not ‘deserved’ but ‘should’) but Hollywood looks after its own and Lord of the Rings are all new comers. They think that next year Lord of the Rings will win. Halle was really OTT (Over The Top). I can just imagine the Oscar’s panel saying “waaaaiiiit a minute, I have a great idea, why don’t we have best man and women as black actors, it’ll make us look good and it’ll boost the ratings.” Why do you think Whoopi was MC? This has nothing to do with their abilities as actors, although they obviously have to be passable to get nominated in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/22 "2002-03-25T21:23:33Z")
Yes, but Lord of the Rings DID suck, you know. What was that deal with Halle Berrie’s hit and run? ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2002, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/23 "2002-03-25T22:51:14Z")
The way I see it, we have these two barriers, Racism and Sexism (among others) which could conceivably get in the way of someone achieving an objective, like, say, getting a promotion at work. Since the Oscars has a best actress category, that only leaves racism since by definition, the Oscars cannot be sexist. If we take this as a given that means that the racial barrier for this particular institution would have been overcome by the first black _person_, be s/he male or female, to win an award. Thus, the racial slant Halle worked into her speech was rendered irrelevant by Sidney Poitier’s victory for his performance in “For Love of Ivy” in 1968. Unless, of course, people are more inclined to be racist towards a black woman than a black man, which doesn’t make much sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/24 "2002-03-26T00:38:53Z")
And Hattie McDaniel ruled that argument out as well. (Yes, I know she was a MAID. The point is, she broke a racial barrier back in before WWII. Back when racism was much more ingrained than it is today. Back when before the Civil Rights movement even started.) Let’s not go there, okay? ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/25 "2002-03-26T00:52:45Z")
Oh for ghod’s sake. Firstly Sidney Poitier won his Oscar for _Lilies of the Field_ in 1964. And secondly: > [@](#): > > the racial barrier for this particular institution would have been overcome by the first black _person_ There’s at least one woman in history who’s made more money than a man. So there’s no such thing as a glass ceiling. Same logic, equally silly conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/26 "2002-03-26T02:09:15Z")
My question is, which past white best actress winners should not have won the award so that more black women could have won it? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/27 "2002-03-26T03:30:17Z")
Maybe Halle Berry got all blubbery and “political” during her speech because she was making it up as she went? Odds are, the poor girl never thought she’d actually win the damn thing (hey, she’s still a Hollywood newbie), so when she’s suddenly standing in front of sixty bazillion people, she just blurted out whatever came to her at the moment. If being Rosa Parks was one of those passing thoughts, so be it. Me, I thought her speech was emotional, genuine, and neat, if albeit a tad long. And the only move I’ve seen her in was _X-Men,_ so I simply interpret the Oscar as vindication for comic-book movies. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/28 "2002-03-26T06:15:42Z")
Years ago I saw this black stand up comic doing a humorous bit on the whole "first black person to \_\_\_\_\_\_\_ " phenomenon. He said he wouldn’t be surprised if whenever he went to the supermarket, a reporter would see him and ask him; “excuse me, is that asparagus you are buying?” ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/29 "2002-03-26T06:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > **Like I said in the Pit, I ain’t a huge fan of the girl, looker that she is, she’s also a bit of a ditz.** An understatement. I haven’t been able to stand her since I saw an interview with her years ago. She’s nearly brain-dead. I didn’t mind her bringing up the racial issue. I wouldn’t have known otherwise. I thought it was classy to pay respects to the African-American women who have gone before her. I got annoyed by the hundreds of thank you’s and her comment that she should be allowed more time because she was the first black woman to win. Please. Her personal acknowledgements had nothing to do with the historical aspect. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/30 "2002-03-26T07:16:38Z")
I wonder if Halle meant it to sound as though many black actresses were cheated out of Oscars they would have won if they’d been white, or if she’s really talking about opening up more Oscar-calibre rolls for black women? And I just have to say again how shocked I am that she still has not, to my knowledge, anywhere acknowledged Billy Bob Thornton, which I consider a shocking faux pas on her part, and it makes me wonder if it was deliberate. I’m almost equally shocked that virtually no one in the media or anywhere else seems to have noticed it or be bothered by it. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/31 "2002-03-26T08:13:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by threemae \* > \*\*Yes, but Lord of the Rings DID suck, you know. > \*\* No, I don’t know that. Because it’s not true. ---
**Author:** ![kase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a5b964/32.png) [@kase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kase)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/32 "2002-03-26T10:21:00Z")
I don’t understand this debate. It’s completely alien to me. How can this still be going on? When I see a person of colour I think; hèy, a person of colour. Like when I see a person with red hair; hèy, a redhead. Or whatever. It’s not important here. This is so old-fashioned. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/33 "2002-03-26T12:27:34Z")
> [@](#): > > There’s at least one woman in history who’s made more money than a man. So there’s no such thing as a glass ceiling. > > Same logic, equally silly conclusion. That may work for sexism in the business world but it doesn’t explain why Hollywood are more likely to be racist towards a black woman than a black man given that by definition, the Oscars _cannot_ be sexist. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/34 "2002-03-26T14:24:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > **Maybe. But to politicize the award (as she did with her acceptance speech** I’m sorry, but by the standards of Academy Awards acceptance speeches, that wasn’t “politicizing” or anything close to it. It was a bad, meandering speech - Ms. Berry does not handle stress well - but a little “Thanks to those who helped open this door for me” is just good manners. Maybe you don’t remember, but the politicization of the Oscars used to be ten times worse, and REALLY irritating. ---
**Author:** ![SimonMoon5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@SimonMoon5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SimonMoon5)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/35 "2002-03-26T19:25:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gomez \* > \*\*The way I see it, we have these two barriers, Racism and Sexism (among others) which could conceivably get in the way of someone achieving an objective, like, say, getting a promotion at work. Since the Oscars has a best actress category, that only leaves racism since by definition, the Oscars cannot be sexist. > \*\* Hmmm. I would say instead that by definition, the Oscars _are_ sexist, since they have different categories for men and women. Are they saying that a woman couldn’t compete against the men for the role of best actor? Imagine if they had categories like “Best non-Black actor” and “Best Black Actor”. Would that be more racist or less racist? (Oh, sure, it would guarantee that more black people would win awards, but it wouldn’t allow them to compete against their peers of other ethnic groups.) ---
**Author:** ![horhay\_achoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@horhay\_achoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/horhay_achoa)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/36 "2002-03-26T19:41:31Z")
I must say that I am getting sick of this whole topic. Black people are a minority. Therefore there are less black actors than white actors. Therefore they have fewer nominations. Therefore they have fewer winners. Maybe at the beginning the fact that they were black actually did have some impact on them winning, but now I think it is just the fact that there are more white actors. Who cares…:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/37 "2002-03-26T20:22:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by horhay\_achoa \* > Black people are a minority. Therefore there are less black actors than white actors. Therefore they have fewer nominations. I would imagine that the casting decisions of the director, producer, and writer(s) would have _some_ effect on this. Unless you _really_ believe movie casting works by grabbing random actors off the street and slapping them into roles. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/38 "2002-03-26T20:24:09Z")
What are you suggesting, **rjung** , that there might be a lower percentage of blacks in the film industry than in the general population? Get out of town! (oh, and sheesh.) ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/39 "2002-03-27T02:20:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Collounsbury \* > \*\*I see. > > Well, yes true enough, on the other hand the reality is that Tiger as the first black golfer helped leverage a sea of change in the sport and in public perceptions. \*\* Except, of course, for all the OTHER black golfers before him. He was just the first really SUCCESSFUL black golfer. There have been other black golfers in the PGA. Of course Halle is a ditz. Probably a full 75 percent of the actors and actresses out there are ditzes. ---
**Author:** ![Gomez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/d78d45/32.png) [@Gomez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gomez)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2002, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978/40 "2002-03-27T15:39:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Imagine if they had categories like “Best non-Black actor” and “Best Black Actor”. Would that be more racist or less racist? Y’know, that makes a _lot_ of sense. I wonder why I didn’t see it like that in the first place. Consider my objection withdrawn. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-oscars-and-race/99978.md?page=1)