# The other thing happening on 6/28. Holder's contempt vote. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612 "2012-06-28T18:18:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/1 "2012-06-28T18:18:22Z")
According to Fox, the Dem Representatives are planning to walk out during the debate on AG Holder’s contempt debate/vote. This won’t stop anything since there will still be a quorum left so my questions for y’all. 1. Will a walkout help or hurt the Dems in the House? 2a) Will a walkout help or hurt Holder? 2b) And by extension, help or hurt Obama? 1. Will the Pubs be satisfied with mere contempt or are we looking a the AG’s resignation (by choice or by Obama’s urging) or failing that, impeachment? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/2 "2012-06-28T18:27:56Z")
The vote and walkout won’t help or hurt anybody because there is precisely zero room for any other political story right now. If anything the timing is great for Holder, Obama, and the Democrats. As to (3) the GOP will be forced to do something (even if it’s just another contempt vote) if they want to keep the story going. The AG will not resign. And the public only barely seems to care (and certainly not today). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/3 "2012-06-28T18:39:46Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > The vote and walkout won’t help or hurt anybody because there is precisely zero room for any other political story right now. If anything the timing is great for Holder, Obama, and the Democrats. > > As to (3) the GOP will be forced to do something (even if it’s just another contempt vote) if they want to keep the story going. The AG will not resign. And the public only barely seems to care (and certainly not today). Yea, from the GOP’s point of view, this is kind of dumb timing. I guess they must’ve figured the SCOTUS would reach a decision earlier in the month when they came up with the original schedule. In anycase, I doubt they’ll get much mileage out of this. Holder isn’t going to resign and the House isn’t going to impeach him. A few NRA voters who need a reason to get worked up against a President that hasn’t actually done anything to restrict their gun rights will get worked up, so Issa will get what he’s really looking for and that’ll be the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![cckerberos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@cckerberos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cckerberos)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/4 "2012-06-28T18:55:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Yea, from the GOP’s point of view, this is kind of dumb timing. I guess they must’ve figured the SCOTUS would reach a decision earlier in the month when they came up with the original schedule. I don’t think they scheduled the contempt vote all that long ago, though. Maybe they thought that if SCOTUS shot down Obamacare (like pretty much everyone was predicting) this would be a double hit on the administration in the same day? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/5 "2012-06-28T19:17:52Z")
If “contempt of Congress” meant what its plain language seems to mean, there would be 300 million cases to be brought. And this Holder thing will only add to that number. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/6 "2012-06-28T21:42:17Z")
Breaking news: In a 255-67 vote, the House finds Holder in Contempt. [CNN link](http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/holder-contempt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/7 "2012-06-28T21:52:12Z")
Glad they are still focused laser-like on jobs and the economy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/8 "2012-06-28T22:03:11Z")
Coming when it did, it couldn’t look any more petty and political. The Republicans really should be ashamed of themselves, but they just don’t care anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/9 "2012-06-28T22:18:18Z")
There is almost no practical value to it. The contempt vote means that congress will pass this to the US Attorney for the District of Columbia who is unlikely to try to prosecute his boss. The civil contempt motion will have the republicans going to court to get the court to order Holder to hand over documents but the courts are traditionally reluctant to override a claim of executive privilege. So much theatrics and hand waving but that is about all it is. The reps are playing to their base but then their base is, well their base so not like they are garnering new votes with this. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/10 "2012-06-28T23:35:11Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Glad they are still focused laser-like on jobs and the economy. 🙂 Well Holder made a killing with all the gun sales. He should at least get the credit he for it. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/11 "2012-06-29T13:00:57Z")
I’m assuming the story as it has been presented so far by the media is well-known. In [this](http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/) recent article from _Fortune_, however, another account is given, which contends "that the public case alleging that [Lead ATF Agent] Voth and his colleagues walked guns is replete with distortions, errors, partial truths, and even some outright lies. > [@](#): > > Quite simply, there’s a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn. How the evidence presented in the article, which contradicts accounts up to now, was unearthed by _Fortune_ but not examined by the House, is not clear to me. It does suggest a certain ineptitude by the House committee, and that’s putting it lightly. Great Debates thread here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=656680&highlight=furious](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=656680&highlight=furious) ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/12 "2012-06-29T19:54:59Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Well Holder made a killing with all the gun sales. He should at least get the credit he for it. Don’t care that that might turn out to be inaccurate. That’s a good joke, and deserves recognition. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/13 "2012-06-29T21:53:43Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Breaking news: In a 255-67 vote, the House finds Holder in Contempt. > > [CNN link](http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/28/politics/holder-contempt/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) [And 108 Dems did walk out in protest.](http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/hold-house-votes-hold-eric-holder-contempt-congress-204937230.html) And now, [the DOJ refuses to prosecute Holder.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/house-republicans-win-contempt-vote-against-attorney-general-holder-but-legal-dispute-ahead/2012/06/29/gJQAO90xAW_story.html) > [@](#): > > In a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, the department said that it will not bring the congressional contempt citation against Holder to a federal grand jury and that it will take no other action to prosecute the attorney general. Dated Thursday, the letter was released Friday. > > Deputy Attorney General James Cole said the decision is in line with long-standing Justice Department practice across administrations of both political parties. > > “We will not prosecute an executive branch official under the contempt of Congress statute for withholding subpoenaed documents pursuant to a presidential assertion of executive privilege,” Cole wrote. > > In its letter, the department relied in large part on a Justice Department legal opinion crafted during Republican Ronald Reagan’s presidency. I guess it would take a special counsel to do anything with this citation, and, in fact, [Senate Pubs have called for one](http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/senate-republicans-call-for-special-prosecutor-in-white-house-leaks-probe/2012/06/12/gJQA5KoxXV_story.html) – that is, for Holder to appoint one. BTW, this is often referred to in public discourse as a “special prosecutor.” But, the term [“special prosecutor”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_prosecutor#United_States) is twice-obsolete, it was replaced by “independent counsel,” and the [U.S. Office of the Independent Counsel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Office_of_the_Independent_Counsel) was abolished in 1999 and replaced by the [U.S. Department of Justice Office of Special Counsel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Department_of_Justice_Office_of_Special_Counsel). The current Special Counsel is [Patrick Fitzgerald.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Fitzgerald) **He** would have to handle this, I guess, unless Congress passes a new law. Bet they wish now they’d done that – that is, revived the office of a Special Prosecutor independent of the DOJ – before Obama took office. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/14 "2012-06-29T21:55:40Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > How the evidence presented in the article, which contradicts accounts up to now, was unearthed by _Fortune_ but not examined by the House, is not clear to me. The Republicans control the House. Is that clear? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/15 "2012-06-30T00:08:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The Republicans control the House. Is that clear? Crystal. I was merely refraining from making any accusations without actual evidence to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/16 "2012-06-30T00:25:21Z")
Well, don’t let the House hear you. I don’t see anything at all coming from this. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/17 "2012-06-30T18:04:29Z")
So the DoJ won’t prosecute Holder? Sounds like a conflict of interest and protectiong your own. Given that development, why wouldn’t the House impeach Holder? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/18 "2012-06-30T18:10:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So the DoJ won’t prosecute Holder? Sounds like a conflict of interest and protectiong your own. Given that development, why wouldn’t the House impeach Holder? Because it would be a monumental waste of time and energy? And bad politics to boot? Do you really think the GOP and Mitt Romney want the House holding impeachment hearings over something that nobody cares about in the middle of a campaign? Madness. ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/19 "2012-06-30T18:28:25Z")
This seems like a despicable sequence of events on the part of the executive branch and I personally want it investigated. It’s not even close to the same scope as the whole Iran-Contra affair but it feels more than superficially in the same class and the truth should be dug out. The whole executive privilege thing seems like political maneuvering but I want the truth out. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612/20 "2012-06-30T18:29:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > So the DoJ won’t prosecute Holder? Sounds like a conflict of interest and protectiong your own. Given that development, why wouldn’t the House impeach Holder? Contempt of Congress probably doesn’t qualify as a “[high crime or misdemeanor](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/stories/watergatedoc_3.htm#grounds)”. It was one of the three charges against Nixon, but none of the other 17 prior impeachment involved contempt of Congress. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-thing-happening-on-6-28-holders-contempt-vote/626612.md?page=2)