# The other use of the word Thug - by rappers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462 "2015-11-02T21:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/41 "2015-11-03T00:25:05Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Then how come no one is calling Tom Brady a Thug? Gee, that was easy: [http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/tom-brady-is-now-a-thug.454516672/](http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/tom-brady-is-now-a-thug.454516672/) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/42 "2015-11-03T00:25:11Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’m pretty sure rappers have received their fair share of criticism. In fact, it’s one of the few things I know about the genre is that people are repelled by how it treats crime, drugs, and women. Google “rap music glorifying violence” and you’ll get plenty of hits. > > I will give them credit, however, for properly using the word “thug.” I’m not saying it doesn’t get criticized. I’m saying it doesn’t get the massive amount of criticism Hannity etc gets… ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/43 "2015-11-03T00:26:00Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > s. > > I will give them credit, however, for properly using the word “thug.” Thats funny. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/44 "2015-11-03T00:26:30Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Gee, that was easy: > > [http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/tom-brady-is-now-a-thug.454516672/](http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/tom-brady-is-now-a-thug.454516672/) lol if that was the best you could find on google it kind of proves my point ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/45 "2015-11-03T00:26:31Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > So why can’t we assume that Hannity was using it in a non-racial meaning too? (As if it is certain that it has a racial meaning, but that’s another question). I will never assume anything benign about Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/46 "2015-11-03T00:27:18Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > How the hell did thug become racial? It is a generic term for violent assholes not specific to one group. If anything it points to one small subset of violent Kali worshipers, not African Americans. > > Thugs are the petty dumb criminals of all walks life and races. Enforcer types for the mafia and various mobs have been called thugs for a long time. When did this specific racial bit happen? Some blacks were called thug alot or heard others being called thug alot, so they naturally assumed it must be racist. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/47 "2015-11-03T00:27:34Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I’m not saying it doesn’t get criticized. I’m saying it doesn’t get the massive amount of criticism Hannity etc gets… As it shouldn’t. Rappers use the term in a way Hannity does not. Do you understand this? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/48 "2015-11-03T00:28:21Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > lol > > if that was the best you could find on google it kind of proves my point Um, wait, it perfectly disproves your point. Someone called Brady a thug. The end. But it wasn’t that important anyway. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/49 "2015-11-03T00:29:22Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > As it shouldn’t. Rappers use the term in a way Hannity does not. Do you understand this? How do you know how Hannity used it? ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/50 "2015-11-03T00:30:02Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > As it shouldn’t. Rappers use the term in a way Hannity does not. Do you understand this? Yes. I understand that. I think it is wrong for rappers to glorify criminality and violence. Do you understand that? ---
**Author:** ![bethewave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@bethewave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethewave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/51 "2015-11-03T00:34:27Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Ok > > But what about rappers glamorizing the criminal lifestyle??? Do you have no condemnation/opinion on that issue? What about mob movies? Video games? Car heist movies? Prison break television shows? The board game Clue? Also, as this is Great Debates - where are you getting the idea that using the word “thug” sells more records? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/52 "2015-11-03T00:38:22Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I think it is wrong for rappers to glorify criminality and violence. So criticize them. No one’s stopping you. more seriously, I think you are saying this: _People get all over Hannity for referring to black people who are not criminals as “thugs.” I understand that. However, black rappers are doing much much worse, by glorifying violence and a gangster lifestyle, and they seem to get a relative pass from society, even (especially) from the same people who are pissed off at Hannity. In my opinion, rappers who do this are doing much more damage to the African-American community than people like Hannity are. Let’s discuss why that might be._ ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/53 "2015-11-03T00:44:10Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes. I understand that. > > I think it is wrong for rappers to glorify criminality and violence. > > Do you understand that? But that is not what the OP is about. ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/54 "2015-11-03T00:49:08Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > So criticize them. No one’s stopping you. > > more seriously, I think you are saying this: > > _People get all over Hannity for referring to black people who are not criminals as “thugs.” I understand that. However, black rappers are doing much much worse, by glorifying violence and a gangster lifestyle, and they seem to get a relative pass from society, even (especially) from the same people who are pissed off at Hannity. In my opinion, rappers who do this are doing much more damage to the African-American community than people like Hannity are. Let’s discuss why that might be._ that is exactly what I am saying ---
**Author:** ![bethewave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@bethewave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethewave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/55 "2015-11-03T00:53:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > So criticize them. No one’s stopping you. > > more seriously, I think you are saying this: > > _People get all over Hannity for referring to black people who are not criminals as “thugs.” I understand that. However, black rappers are doing much much worse, by glorifying violence and a gangster lifestyle, and they seem to get a relative pass from society, even (especially) from the same people who are pissed off at Hannity. In my opinion, rappers who do this are doing much more damage to the African-American community than people like Hannity are. Let’s discuss why that might be._ That’s a good summation of what he’s getting at - but I still don’t see the link. Hannity is a TV news personality, apparently using a word considered racially charged. People have said to him, “Don’t say that word, it’s racially charged”. Rappers also use the word, says the OP - though he hasn’t given us any examples of this, and the only specific rapper to pop up so far in this thread has been dead for nearly 20 years. “Why are they allowed to use a word that Hannity isn’t?” pivots really quickly into “Why do they glorify violence?” in a way I can’t quite follow. Edited to add - what is meant by saying that they get a pass from society? That their music is recorded and played on the radio? That you can buy their albums? That we don’t jail them for it? That their mums still invite them around at Christmas? Well, of course. Just as violent films are allowed to play in cinemas, and violent video games are available for purchase. What would not giving them a pass look like? Censoring them? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/56 "2015-11-03T00:57:30Z")
> [@bethewave](#): > > Rappers also use the word, says the OP - though he hasn’t given us any examples of this, and the only specific rapper to pop up so far in this thread has been dead for nearly 20 years. Oh, finding a “thug” in recent rap lyrics is easy, you just go through…Taylor Swift? > **[Taylor Swift - Thug Story Lyrics | AZLyrics.com](https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/taylorswift/thugstory.html)** > > Taylor Swift "Thug Story": Hey hey, T-Swizzle T-Swizzle And T-Pizzle T-Pizzle I'm like 8 foot 4 Blond hair to the floor You s... She's white, she's not armed, she's not a criminal, but she's still a thug, she informs us. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/57 "2015-11-03T00:59:55Z")
[Same issue from April this year.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=755809) ---
**Author:** ![Robert163](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4af34b/32.png) [@Robert163](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robert163)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/58 "2015-11-03T01:04:16Z")
> [@bethewave](#): > > What about mob movies? Video games? Car heist movies? Prison break television shows? The board game Clue? what about it > [@](#): > > Also, as this is Great Debates - where are you getting the idea that using the word “thug” sells more records? see the word(s) [Thug Life](http://tdclique.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Tupac-Tattoo-Thug-Life-Eric-Blair.jpg), right underneath the AK47??? That fine looking man is named Tupac, the most famous Rapper ever. Here is an album he put out called [Thug Life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thug_Life:_Volume_1). Here is the Urban Dictionary definition of Thug Life: Thug Life _A word Evolved by the late Tupac Shakur. Commonly mistaken for a Criminal. Thug Life is the opposite of someone having all he needs to succeed. Thug life is when you have nothing, and succeed, when you have overcome all obstacles to reach your aim._ Here is Tupac’s song/video called [Thug Life](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7YTrp6E3eg). [Lyrics](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/thug4life.html). Here in another song, called _Shed So Many Tears_, Tupac talks about his [tattoo](https://play.google.com/music/preview/Tp5mgh535idswmu2xyps2p6nxmm?lyrics=1&utm_source=google&utm_medium=search&utm_campaign=lyrics&pcampaignid=kp-lyrics), getting "Thug Life tattooed across my chest… In the song _U can’t see me_ Tupac [brags](http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/2pac/cantcme.html) that “even my own mamma says I’m thugged out.” [Shed So Many Tears](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oGtm58vR80) [You can’t See Me](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULJDtRpvyg8) [Thug Mansion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTlm3e4rfnI) Tupac sold [75 Million Records](https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&q=how+many+records+did+tupac+sell&oq=how+many+records+did+tupac+sell&gs_l=hp.3..0j0i22i30l9.2398.15367.0.16897.32.26.0.6.6.0.128.2358.20j6.26.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..1.31.2325.0.45Qhzf0MlGk) Tupac had a lot more songs about “Thug Life”. Lots of other rappers talk about thug Life too. Tupac is just the first and most famous. As a closing note, I do not think Tupac’s intent was necessarily to glorify crime and violence. It was to talk about his struggles and the struggles of black people (from his background) in an honest way. He spoke from the heart. He spoke directly. He was honest. That is why his message/music is so popular, with all kinds of people, of all races and income levels and experiences. ---
**Author:** ![bethewave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@bethewave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bethewave)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/59 "2015-11-03T01:09:48Z")
Oh, I see. > [@Robert163](#): > > When Sean Hannity uses the term “Thug” to refer to a black person, there is an EXPLOSION on social media. When a rapper uses the word Thug all it does is sell more records. > > **Why does social media explode for the first category and not the second**? I must have missed the social media explosions when Thug Life came out in 1994. And it’s good to see we’re using Urban Dictionary as a Great Debates cite now. Progress! ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/60 "2015-11-03T01:11:28Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > Yes. I understand that. > > **I think it is wrong for rappers to glorify criminality and violence.** > > Do you understand that? That’s my feel of it because I haver personally seen youth that listen to such often, gain an attitude based off of it. It’s like back in the day when that movie “Boyz in the hood” came out. I was at the theater that day seeing another movie and when I came out, cops where swarming the place because so many youths who came out of that theater after watching the movie, starting acting the fool and causing trouble. Not saying that movie glorified violence in the same way some rap lyrics do or elude to, but rather the subculture glorified it, friends that see or hear about being hard and find it cool and therefore pass that glorification onto others. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462.md?page=4)