# The other use of the word Thug - by rappers **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462 "2015-11-02T21:28:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/81 "2015-11-03T10:38:41Z")
> [@Robert163](#): > > I am tempted to say gangsta rap is worse, because those kids actually emulate those artists as personal hero’s… but I could be completely wrong about that. Perhaps it is, honestly, nothing more than my ignorance on the topic and white privilege that I have no true perspective. I would be glad, more than glad, to be proven wrong. > [@](#): > > Is gangsta rap’s continuing popularity bad for hip-hop? People [much more intelligent than I](http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/apr/01/gangsta-rap-dead-gone-hip-hop) have debated this question. But decades after news reports about how hard-edged hip-hop was ruining the inner city and destroying America, it’s clear that hysterical detractors have been unable to stop gangsta rap. And, in the meantime, [violent crime rates have only gone down](http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/aug/21/america-serious-crime-rate-plunging). > > Besides, despite the dominance of the genre, hip-hop remains an extremely broad church where everyone from skaters to nerds to [sad robots](http://www.passionweiss.com/2014/02/20/how-the-sad-robot-became-the-dominant-sound-in-rap/) have a place. Being a gangster and being a gangsta rapper are two very different skill sets, and the vast majority of gangsta rappers aren’t killing people or running cocaine networks. Hip-hop is an art form, and the performers are artists. It’s high time everyone calmed down and let them make their art. [Source](http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/apr/01/gangsta-rap-dead-gone-hip-hop) > [@](#): > > Lots of other things about rap have evolved over the years. The word “fag” isn’t heard very often anymore. The number of commercially viable female rappers appears to be on the rise. Political lyrics seem back in style, with artists like Kendrick Lamar discussing the same problems that led to the Black Lives Matter movement. Then again, you could make similar observations about art forms from film to literature right now. That sexism persists probably says something about just how deeply ingrained it is, both in rap, and everywhere else. [Source](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/05/action-bronson-nxne-petition-consenseual-rape-lyrics/394286/) > [@](#): > > **A lot of rappers glamorize cocaine dealing, regardless of whether they’ve done it or not. As someone who has lived the realities, does that bother you? > O.T.:** Basically, I did it for myself. I didn’t make the song for other people. That’s how I felt at the time. The reaction that I’m getting from it, it just clarifies that there’s a lot of shit going on, whether that’s people using it or people selling it. No, I’m not glorifying it. That’s not what I’m doing at all. I just want to be a spokesperson for the people. [Source](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/o-t-loves-coco-the-story-behind-the-rising-rappers-viral-hit-20141204) (from interview with rapper O.T. Genasis, who does not rap about baking soda) > [@](#): > > All of this helps explain why music writers have gone bonkers for the song, specifically rap critics from middle-class backgrounds like myself, who, perhaps to a fault, tend to enjoy artists who bring to life the inner-city struggle that we’ve never experienced. [Source](http://www.theguardian.com/music/2015/mar/25/fetty-wap-trap-queen-new-jersey-rap-hip-hop) (from a larger critique of one the year’s most popular bangers “Trap Queen”, which is a song about “trapping” or selling drugs) [Several](http://gawker.com/remember-when-dr-dre-bashed-a-female-journalists-face-1721368450) [articles](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/08/dr-dres-abuse-women-dee-barnes-straight-outta-compton/401744/) [are critical](http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/08/straight-outta-compton-nwa/401279/) of the white washing (ha) of Dr Dre’s [violent past against women](http://gawker.com/heres-whats-missing-from-straight-outta-compton-me-and-1724735910) when _Straight Outta Compton_ premiered earlier this year. That last one is an account from Dee Barnes, the woman Dre abused, who at the time worked in the industry. Also, be sure to listen to that Kendrick song in the third link. _To Pimp A Butterfly_ is, to most listeners, the best rap album of the year. Anyway, there is criticism out there if you look. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/82 "2015-11-03T10:59:44Z")
Speaking of Lamar: Hey OP, have you heard his previous album, _Good Kid, M.A.A.D City_? Deals a lot with the issue of being, well, a good kid growing up in a crazy part of town. Surrounded by “thugs,” dipping your toes in those waters, trying out that lifestyle a little bit, yet not really fitting in, and somehow making it out alive in the end. [This song especially, I think, is like the TL;DR version of the entire album](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpRpzvV7K2s). Give it a shot and let me know what you think. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/83 "2015-11-03T15:30:11Z")
I don’t think the OP is going to be back for awhile. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/84 "2015-11-03T15:44:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Exactly. People like Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly, and all those other assholes who have taken a perfectly good word like “thug” and turned it into a racial slur need to fought at every turn on this issue. We shouldn’t let scum like that define the English language for us. > > . > . > . > > That _is_ who you were talking about, wasn’t it, **doorhinge**? No. The word _thug_ refers to a violent person. A _thug_ is someone who acts in a violent manner. If you chose to use the word _thug_ as a racial slur, that’s your choice, but it doesn’t change the general meaning of the word itself. If you chose to assume that someone else used the word _thug_ as a racial slur, you’ll need more proof than the assumptions of some Tom, Dick, and Harry if you intend to convince the general public that you’ve changed the meaning of a word **and the public had just better believe what you tell them to believe**. Some people are not that easily swayed by incorrect assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/85 "2015-11-03T15:56:34Z")
Rappers are notoriously racist. > [@HeXen](#): > > That’s my feel of it because I haver personally seen youth that listen to such often, gain an attitude based off of it. > It’s like back in the day when that movie “Boyz in the hood” came out. I was at the theater that day seeing another movie and when I came out, cops where swarming the place because so many youths who came out of that theater after watching the movie, starting **acting the fool** and causing trouble. Are you trying to make “acting the fool” the new “Thug”? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2015, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462/86 "2015-11-03T18:43:57Z")
I don’t listen to a lot of rap, but probably my favorite is [Little Weapon by Lupe Fiasco.](https://youtu.be/9rKmdRdNO7s?t=45s) The first half is about African child soldiers. > [@](#): > > Can’t write their own names > Or read the words that’s on their own graves > Think you gangsta, popped a few rounds? > These kids’ll come through and murder a whole town > Then sit back and smoke and watch it burn down. Basically a diss on the whole rap community. Makes discussions of who’s a “real gangster” or a “fake tough guy” laughable. I tend to think media holds a mirror up to society. If something doesn’t resonate it’ll be niche and you won’t hear about it. If media is X, it’s because society is X. It has an effect, but how much of a feedback loop exists is hard to tell. Corporations and governments wouldn’t spend billions on advertisements and propaganda for the fun of it. How many dumb ideas or misperceptions have started with “I saw it in a movie.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-other-use-of-the-word-thug-by-rappers/736462.md?page=4)