# The ozone hole is closing **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 20, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494 "2006-08-20T21:38:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sattua](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sattua/32/11906_2.png) [@Sattua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sattua)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/1 "2006-08-20T21:38:28Z")
Article: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060818/sc\_nm/environment\_ozone\_dc\_1](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060818/sc_nm/environment_ozone_dc_1) I didn’t know that it could close. I mean, I didn’t know that it could close until after humanity had all died of AIDS and skin cancer and heavy metal poisoning. Why didn’t they ever tell us this in school? The world was supposed to be over by now. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/2 "2006-08-20T21:46:21Z")
Another article, this one from a science magazine [http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/574](http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/574) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/3 "2006-08-20T21:51:00Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > …Why didn’t they ever tell us this in school? The world was supposed to be over by now. Bummer. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/4 "2006-08-20T22:01:11Z")
> [@Sattua](#): > > Why didn’t they ever tell us this in school? The world was supposed to be over by now. Sounds like you’d best get cracking on studying for that big exam after all. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/5 "2006-08-20T22:01:47Z")
Yes, but doing so has [boosted global warming](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,209520,00.html). Ya win some, ya lose some. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/6 "2006-08-20T22:01:51Z")
I’ll see your closing hole in the ozone-layer and raise you an [Sahara-sesert in retreat:](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2267652.stm) > [@](#): > > Satellite pictures of northern Africa show that areas lost to the Sahara desert during decades of drought are turning green again. Analysis of images show deserts retreating in a broad band stretching from Mauritania to Eritrea, according to research in British magazine New Scientist. The driving force behind the retreat of the deserts is believed to be increased rainfall. Better farming methods have also played a critical role, according to researchers. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/7 "2006-08-20T22:43:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The agencies’ message came in an official summary of a report by 250 scientists to be issued next year on the effects of the 1987 Montreal Protocol, which committed signatory nations progressively to ban the use of ozone-harmful products. > > “The early signs that the atmosphere is healing demonstrate that the Montreal Protocol is working,” said Achim Steiner, executive director of UNEP. So a major international treaty that gets followed can actually have an impact on global climate issues? Hmmm… ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/8 "2006-08-21T02:28:08Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I’ll see your closing hole in the ozone-layer and raise you an [Sahara-sesert in retreat:](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2267652.stm) Well that’s a plus for Africa; but, on the downside, it’s because the deserts have moved north to [Spain](http://www.iberianature.com/material/spain_drought.htm). ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/9 "2006-08-21T09:02:30Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > Well that’s a plus for Africa; but, on the downside, it’s because the deserts have moved north to [Spain](http://www.iberianature.com/material/spain_drought.htm). ☹ Yes, but read the article you quoted yourself. The problem is not “drought”: it’s overuse. We’ve turned Almería (which has been a desert since time immemorial) into a plastic sea of hothouses irrigated with water from wells and from nearby rivers; the wells are running out, so now the people from Almería whine that “Almería is becoming a desert” and cry that people from the North should let them take water from our rivers. Uh, no, and you guys have always lived in a desert! The overuse of water upriver has lead to drying the Tablas de Daimiel or the Coto de Doñana almost completely. Another big source of desertization is fires, most of which are caused by man (over 60% by official statistics) and way too often on purpose. The current Spanish government is Socialist. Andalusia (to which Almería belongs) is a Socialist stronghold; the previous time they came into power it was by buying votes, both directly and through the creation of a special unemployment subsidy for temporary agricultural workers: everybody else must have worked at least 9 months to get a subsidy whereas aggies from Andalusia and Extremadura only need to work for… 30 days! The communities from which the Andalusians want to get the water are decidedly non-socialist, partly due to the harm caused to our farmers by the aforementioned subsidy. Many farmers up north would more gladly have as their son-in-law a Muslim subsaharian immigrant than an Andalusian. Desertization, yes; but what we need to do is learn to use the water there is and stop trying to turn deserts into vegas. And of course, stop whining that our deserts are becoming deserts! ---
**Author:** ![Antonius\_Block](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/51bf81/32.png) [@Antonius\_Block](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antonius_Block)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/10 "2006-08-22T08:44:09Z")
I didn’t mean to imply that the desertification of Spain was particularly due to climatic conditions, **Nava** (although they are a part of the problem); my earlier post was only 19 words long, and made no attempt to assign causality! As a resident of Northern California, I’m all too familiar with the “North has the water / South wants the water” meme. I’ve been to Almeria (and I’ve seen [Lawrence of Arabia](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056172/locations) several times) so I’m aware that it really **wants** to be desert. I completely sympathize with the views of northern Spaniards such as yourself, although I’ll admit that I’m not as familiar with water issues and irrigation projects in Spain as I am with those in the Western US. Thanks for giving us the view from Up North! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/11 "2006-08-22T09:51:35Z")
> [@Antonius Block](#): > > I didn’t mean to imply that the desertification of Spain was particularly due to climatic conditions, **Nava** (although they are a part of the problem); my earlier post was only 19 words long, and made no attempt to assign causality! Actually, I noticed: you just mentioned the issue, didn’t comment on it. Sorry that I jumped up. If you want to see some terrific desert pictures from Spain, google Bardenas. I used to have a pic of Monte Huevo on my desk and people thought it was Arizona. There isn’t any official documentation on how it got that way: we know it was a forest in the 15th century and not anymore by the mid-16th. The legend I got from Dad is that it was burned down by Cardenal Cisneros when he was Viceroy of Navarra, to run out the bandits (Aragon and Navarra still had separate coins and taxes, so there were smugglers). Then google Irati: the two places are 100 miles apart - both in Navarra. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2006, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/12 "2006-08-22T10:26:43Z")
In related news, monkeys actually do fly out of my ass, except they come out sideways and with sunglasses on. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/13 "2006-09-23T03:18:19Z")
[Antarctic ozone hole nears record: U.N. agency](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060922/sc_nm/environment_ozone_dc_2) > [@](#): > > “The ozone depletion started quite late, but when it started it came quite rapidly,” Braathen told journalists in Geneva. > > “It (the hole) has now risen to a level that has passed last year’s, and is very close to, if not equal to, the ozone hole size of 2003, and also approaching the size of 2000,” he said. > > The Antarctic ozone hole was at its second-largest in 2003. ---
**Author:** ![2lazy2pee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/4bbf92/32.png) [@2lazy2pee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2lazy2pee)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/14 "2006-09-23T04:56:55Z")
ManBearPig is real! I’m totally super-serial! ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/15 "2006-09-23T22:54:03Z")
I was of the understanding that there never was a hole, that there were highly depleted levels of ozone (most notably over mount Pinatubo right after the eruption) and that those levels have already rebounded, just as all depleted ozone locations do as a result of the existence of the sun. I was further of the understanding that in order to punch a hole in the ozone layer and keep it there would require knocking out the sun, since that’s where ozone is created. was I wrong? Could someone cite data that indicates there has actually been a hole in the ozone layer at all? ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/16 "2006-09-23T23:04:11Z")
It’s closing? Oh no! Quick - Where are all my spray cans??? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/17 "2006-09-23T23:31:14Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] The problem is not “drought”: it’s overuse. We’ve turned Almería (which has been a desert since time immemorial) into a plastic sea of hothouses irrigated with water from wells and from nearby rivers; the wells are running out, so now the people from Almería whine that “Almería is becoming a desert” and cry that people from the North should let them take water from our rivers. Uh, no, and you guys have always lived in a desert! The overuse of water upriver has lead to drying the Tablas de Daimiel or the Coto de Doñana almost completely. Another big source of desertization is fires, most of which are caused by man (over 60% by official statistics) and way too often on purpose. [/QUOTE] Depletion of underground aquifers and the attendant inevitable decline of available water for consumption and irrigation is real, unspoken ecological catastrophe that looms [del]overhead[/del] underfoot. Unlike, say, global climate change (which may progress rapidly but still in stages to which civilizations can adapt), aquifer depletion will result in dramatic and ruinous decline of water supplies. Furthermore, underground aquifers require a water content as part of their structure; without it they’ll compress under load from the ground they support and, like a squeezed sponge, won’t be able to absorb or retain as much water even if the attempt is made to somehow artificially replenish them. Also, in some areas (such as Mexico City), aquifer depletion is resulting in geologic shifting and sinking, undermining building and public works foundations. We can probably adapt to global warming and a more active climate (albeit at great cost and with many adjustments). But without potable water to drink and grow crops, we’re in big hurt. Oh well; forget about it. It’s Chinatown. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/18 "2018-11-06T14:40:11Z")
Updating this thread there has been more improvement in the last 13 years: > [@](#): > > After decades of thinning, Earth’s ozone layer is slowing recovering, the United Nations (UN) said in a report released Monday, highlighting how international co-operation can help tackle major environmental issues. > > The ozone layer, which protects humans and other species from the sun’s highly hazardous ultraviolet radiation, has been declining since the 1970s due to the effect of chemicals such as chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) and similar gases found in refrigerants and aerosol spray cans. > > But the new study—Scientific Assessment of Ozone Depletion: 2018—shows that ozone in parts of the stratosphere has recovered at a rate of 1-3 percent since 2000 due to the success of the 1987 Montreal Protocol, the landmark multilateral environmental agreement that phased out ozone-depleting substances… > > If progress continues, the Northern Hemisphere and mid-latitude ozone should be healed by the 2030s, followed by the Southern Hemisphere in the 2050s and polar regions by 2060, according to the study. [https://www.ecowatch.com/un-healing-ozone-layer-environmental-treaties-2618070206.html](https://www.ecowatch.com/un-healing-ozone-layer-environmental-treaties-2618070206.html) Here is the executive summary of the report: [http://conf.montreal-protocol.org/meeting/mop/mop30/presession/Background-Documents/SAP-2018-Assessment-ES-October2018.pdf](http://conf.montreal-protocol.org/meeting/mop/mop30/presession/Background-Documents/SAP-2018-Assessment-ES-October2018.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-ozone-hole-is-closing/369494/19 "2018-11-06T21:04:00Z")
Enjoy it while you can. CFCs are coming back in [China](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-44738952) thanks to loose enforcement.