# The Panama Papers - Mossack Fonseca leak **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136 "2016-04-03T23:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/1 "2016-04-03T23:29:00Z")
A German newspaper, [Süddeutsche Zeitung](http://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4/), just released the “Panama Papers”. A 2.6 terabyte document dump exposing over two hundred thousand of offshore shell companies. USA Today is also [reporting](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/04/03/reactions-panama-papers-leak-go-global/82589874/) on this story. > [@USA Today](#): > > The Washington, D.C.-based International Consortium of Investigative Journalism (ICIJ) said the trove of 11.5 million records details the offshore holdings of a dozen current and former world leaders, as well as businessmen, criminals, celebrities and sports stars. The data span nearly 40 years, from 1977 through the end of 2015, ICIJ said, allowing “a never-before-seen view inside the offshore world — providing a day-to-day, decade-by-decade look at how dark money flows through the global financial system, breeding crime and stripping national treasuries of tax revenues.” A multi-national group,of journalists has spent a year digging into this data. So, what will happen? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/2 "2016-04-03T23:51:26Z")
Whoa, this and the [Unaoil leak](http://www.theage.com.au/interactive/2016/the-bribe-factory/day-1/the-company-that-bribed-the-world.html) are going to be big tests of how big media corporations do inform the public properly. Will check how this develops too. So far, it seems the Prime minister of Iceland and Putin from Russia seem to be involved. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/3 "2016-04-04T00:18:30Z")
Heh, there is even a Godfather involved in this. > **[Revealed: the $2bn offshore trail that leads to Vladimir Putin](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/panama-papers-money-hidden-offshore)** > > A massive leak of documents shines new light on the fabulous fortunes of the Russian president’s inner circle > [@](#): > > The Panama Papers shine a particular spotlight on Sergei Roldugin, who is Putin’s best friend. Roldugin introduced Putin to the woman he subsequently married, Lyudmila, and is godfather to Putin’s older daughter, Maria. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/4 "2016-04-04T00:42:54Z")
I don’t really understand what this is all about. Some rich and powerful people were doing morally questionable things with money–that I get, but it’s not really surprising. What here is new, interesting, and plausibly will lead to some kind of consequences for the bad actors involved? (And should it lead to such consequences?) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/5 "2016-04-04T00:47:40Z")
I think, in a nutshell, this part explains what the big deal is: > [@](#): > > Generally speaking, owning an offshore company is not illegal in itself. In fact, establishing an offshore company can be seen as a logical step for a broad range of business transactions. However, a look through the Panama Papers very quickly reveals that concealing the identities of the true company owners was the primary aim in the vast majority of cases. From the outset, the journalists had their work cut out for them. The providers of offshore companies – among them banks, lawyers, and investment advisors – often keep their clients’ names secret and use proxies. In turn, the proxies’ tracks then lead to heads of state, important officials, and millionaires. Over the course of the international project, journalists cooperated with one another to investigate thousands of leads: they examined evidence, studied contracts, and spoke with experts. > > Among others, Mossack Fonsecas’ clients include criminals and members of various Mafia groups. The documents also expose bribery scandals and corrupt heads of state and government. The alleged offshore companies of twelve current and former heads of state make up one of the most spectacular parts of the leak, as do the links to other leaders, and to their families, closest advisors, and friends. The Panamanian law firm also counts almost 200 other politicians from around the globe among its clients, including a number of ministers. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/6 "2016-04-04T00:52:19Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > A multi-national group,of journalists has spent a year digging into this data. So, what will happen? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/7 "2016-04-04T00:57:45Z")
My understanding, from the report I heard today, is that it uncovers not just skeevy behavior, but also illegal behavior. It’ll be interesting to see what prosecutions result. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/8 "2016-04-04T01:02:32Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Nothing. Nonsense. The PM of iceland may lose office over this. Various other politicians will face probes from their home countries. A bunch of hundred-millionairies will now have their home countries revenue services going over the evidence and racking up fines for hiding assets. Various countries may try and change laws to try and make it harder to hide assets offshore. Will the top people (eg King of KSA and Putin and multi billionaires) get harmed? Probably not. Will it really change anything? Probably not, but it might make it harder to hide assets in the future. Thats not nothing. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/9 "2016-04-04T02:21:50Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Nonsense. The PM of iceland may lose office over this. Various other politicians will face probes from their home countries. A bunch of hundred-millionairies will now have their home countries revenue services going over the evidence and racking up fines for hiding assets. Various countries may try and change laws to try and make it harder to hide assets offshore. > > Will the top people (eg King of KSA and Putin and multi billionaires) get harmed? Probably not. Will it really change anything? Probably not, but it might make it harder to hide assets in the future. > > Thats not nothing. Oh, you got me there! Frosty the Snowman may lose his job. Some of these guys will lose a tiny fraction of their ill-gotten gains. And now they have to find a new place to hide their money. What a global impact! ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/10 "2016-04-04T02:23:38Z")
Sorry, but if heads of government are losing office over this, that ranks fairly highly on the scale of “impact”. What were you expecting - a nuclear war? ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/11 "2016-04-04T02:32:05Z")
Corrupt bankers actually go to jail in Iceland? Wow! That’s an interesting concept they have over there. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/12 "2016-04-04T02:44:17Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Sorry, but if heads of government are losing office over this, that ranks fairly highly on the scale of “impact”. What were you expecting - a nuclear war? Ever hear the phrase ‘new boss, same as the old boss’? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/13 "2016-04-04T02:52:57Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Ever hear the phrase ‘new boss, same as the old boss’? I have. I’m not seeing any evidence, or even argument, that it applies here. Are you saying that every mother member of the Athing is similarly compromised, and that none of them are in the least dismayed at the prospect that they might lose office if their behaviour comes to light? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/14 "2016-04-04T03:09:27Z")
The editor of the German Newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung was asked on [twitter](https://twitter.com/ploechinger/status/716763595820941312) about the lack of US individuals in the documents and said, “Just wait for what is coming next.”\* - literal translation: Just wait what still comes. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/15 "2016-04-04T03:26:41Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Will the top people (eg King of KSA and Putin and multi billionaires) get harmed? Probably not. Will it really change anything? Probably not, but it might make it harder to hide assets in the future. …and what new regulations will be put in place will make it an even greater hassle for some regular person/business to do regular banking for legitimate purposes offshore. Has already happened before. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/16 "2016-04-04T03:44:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Oh, you got me there! Frosty the Snowman may lose his job. Now now, you’re just jealous because your country doesn’t actually hold misbehaving politicians accountable. Iceland [apparently still takes that sort of thing seriously](http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/03/iceland-pm-calls-snap-election-offshore-revelations): > [@](#): > > On Monday, Gunnlaugsson is expected to face allegations from opponents that he has hidden a major financial conflict of interest from voters ever since he was elected an MP seven years ago. > > The former prime minister Jóhanna Sigurðardóttir said Gunnlaugsson would have to resign if he could not regain public trust quickly, calling on him to “give a straightforward account of all the facts of the matter”. > > The former finance minister Steingrímur Sigfússon told the Guardian: “We can’t permit this. Iceland would simply look like a banana republic. No one is saying he used his position as prime minister to help this offshore company, but the fact is you shouldn’t leave yourself open to a conflict of interest. And nor should you keep it secret.” [QUOTE=TriPolar] Some of these guys will lose a tiny fraction of their ill-gotten gains. [/quote] You do realize that they hate when that happens, don’t you? [QUOTE=TriPolar] And now they have to find a new place to hide their money. [/QUOTE] They hate it when **that** happens too. Mind you, I’m not saying that actual jail time wouldn’t also be appropriate in some cases, and perhaps considerably more effective. But until citizens of the non-Icelandic nations abandon their lazy cynical posturing and start being embarrassed enough about looking like banana republics to push for more stringent penalties, we’ll have to settle for whatever minimal accountability we can get. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/17 "2016-04-04T04:16:07Z")
> [@camille](#): > > The editor of the German Newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung was asked on [twitter](https://twitter.com/ploechinger/status/716763595820941312) about the lack of US individuals in the documents and said, “Just wait for what is coming next.”\* > > - literal translation: Just wait what still comes. One theory I saw is that there is pressure to give some [del]perpetrators[/del], I mean businessmen 😛 a way out by allowing them to declare their actual worth and pay their real taxes for the year. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/18 "2016-04-04T04:26:13Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But until citizens of the non-Icelandic nations abandon their lazy cynical posturing and start being embarrassed enough about looking like banana republics to push for more stringent penalties, we’ll have to settle for whatever minimal accountability we can get. I agree, but it is quite interesting to find that Iceland **was** a Banana republic. 😉 > **[Banana production in Iceland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_production_in_Iceland)** > > Although Iceland is reliant upon fishing, tourism and aluminium production as the mainstays of its economy, the production of vegetables and fruit in greenhouses is a growing sector. Until the 1960s, this included commercial production of bananas. > In 1941, the first bananas in Iceland were produced. They have been produced since that time, about 100 clusters a year each weighing about 5–20 kg (11–44 lb), but are not currently sold. In the wake of World War II, the combination of inexpensive geot... QI was wrong, some greenhouses in Iceland produced bananas before but not at the scale of Spain, nowadays they are just being grown in one university greenhouse and not sold anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/19 "2016-04-04T05:58:13Z")
> **[Episode 403: What Can We Do With Our Shell Companies?](https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/03/30/472452808/episode-403-what-can-we-do-with-our-shell-companies)** > > And how can we meet our fake shareholder and fake director? Planet Money did an interesting podcast last week on setting up an offshore company and the basic takeaway is that it’s incredibly easy. I don’t know if the timing was a coincidence or whether they had heard through the journalistic grapevine that this was going to be a big story. I am guessing they will do a follow-up about these revelations. > **[Panama Papers: a massive document leak reveals a global web of corruption and...](https://www.vox.com/2016/4/3/11356326/panama-papers)** > > The biggest — and potentially one of the most explosive — document leaks ever. Vox has a good background piece on the whole issue. While at some level, this is something that “everyone knows” is going on , the specificity and sheer volume of these revelations will have an impact. At the least, politicians and celebrities around the world will face some unwelcome scrutiny and hopefully it will increase the global pressure to crack down on these offshore havens. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/20 "2016-04-04T06:57:34Z")
I work for an offshore company (Isle of Man) - that’s hardly the issue here, I think. The issue is having an offshore company and \*hiding \*that fact. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=2)