# The Panama Papers - Mossack Fonseca leak **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136 "2016-04-03T23:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/41 "2016-04-04T17:03:42Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Yes, scanned documents like the legal filings, supporting documents like the memorandums that often have images and scans, the scanned signatures pages which are usually needed. > > It is very easy to have a company file that is very banal and simple and its documentation is tens and tens of the megabytes. > > This is the problem with the reaction without any knowledge. I think this is the case. I have a scanned file that I received for a client that is about 20 megabytes. The firm also does wealth management so there may be scanned statements and other documents. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/42 "2016-04-04T19:11:01Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I don’t really understand what this is all about. > > Some rich and powerful people were doing morally questionable things with money–that I get, but it’s not really surprising. > > What here is new, interesting, and plausibly will lead to some kind of consequences for the bad actors involved? (And should it lead to such consequences?) We all know that the rich and powerful do this stuff but we rarely have proof like this. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/43 "2016-04-04T19:12:28Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Corrupt bankers actually go to jail in Iceland? > > Wow! That’s an interesting concept they have over there. Its probably unconstitutional here otherwise how would you explain the lack of high level bankers serving time in ass-raping jail? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/44 "2016-04-04T19:21:58Z")
Apparently, they haven’t yet released the big findings on Americans yet. Given the sheer quantity of money that went missing from the Clinton’s charity, and the persistent rumors of their committing a number of financial shenanigans over their career, it seems likely that Hillary gets hit with a whammy once they release the American section. Of course, Trump probably will as well. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/45 "2016-04-04T19:24:44Z")
I love the defence that Mossanc Fonseca uses - it claims it has ‘done nothing wrong’ All except for one small detail, setting up accounts to hide wealth is not a crime in Panamas legislature, however for those who are doing the hiding, it is very much a crime in their home nations. Almost like saying that since murder is not a crime on the books of one nation, nothing wrong has been done when it assists another person to do it I doubt that the G20 nations will take the same view ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/46 "2016-04-04T19:30:55Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > “Crime, boy, I dunno.” If you’re wondering in the future, “Crime, boy, I dunno” is when I decided to kick your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/47 "2016-04-04T20:37:29Z")
Why would they not have released American files at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/48 "2016-04-04T20:43:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why would they not have released American files at the same time? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the original research on this was done by Europeans, so they’d be more interested in their own backyard. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/49 "2016-04-04T21:04:29Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why would they not have released American files at the same time? Maybe they figured that the revelations about the Americans would swamp everything else out of the news cycle and it would all be forgotten by the time everything’s over. It makes more sense to take out the Icelandics and such, once that’s done go for the big targets. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/50 "2016-04-04T21:05:42Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the original research on this was done by Europeans, so they’d be more interested in their own backyard. And Latin Americans, it seems. I know of one US citizen so far mentioned, the well known reggaetón performer [Daddy Yankee](http://periodismoinvestigativo.com/2016/04/a-donde-va-el-dinero-de-daddy-yankee/). The papers also mention some US states that were used for the scandas, like Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/51 "2016-04-04T21:07:55Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Apparently, they haven’t yet released the big findings on Americans yet. > > Given the sheer quantity of money that went missing from the Clinton’s charity, and the persistent rumors of their committing a number of financial shenanigans over their career, it seems likely that Hillary gets hit with a whammy once they release the American section. > > Of course, Trump probably will as well. For purely trolling reasons I hope this is true and they hold the American data until after hillaryand Trump have won their nominations. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/52 "2016-04-04T21:12:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Why would they not have released American files at the same time? I have seen several reports that for a variety of reasons, Panama and Mossack Fonseca were not often used or popular with Americans. Also, I expect the Süddeutsche Zeitung to release this in a manner calculated to see more papers. Saving the most wanted for last. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/53 "2016-04-04T21:32:40Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > I love the defence that Mossanc Fonseca uses - it claims it has ‘done nothing wrong’ > > All except for one small detail, setting up accounts to hide wealth is not a crime in Panamas legislature, however for those who are doing the hiding, it is very much a crime in their home nations. this assertion although is fun in the populist anger posturing is not in fact necessarily the case. Countries with the capital controls, it is not unusual for their overseas expatriated to set up such things for investment back into the country, and it is not a crime (it could be a civil offense or similar subject to fines, but not criminal). it is doubtless fun to yell and demagogue, but I see these structures all the time used by such entities like the \*\*\*Caisse de Consignation \*\*\*or the _ **Proparco** _ or the _ **BEI** _ - EU state entities event - to invest into certain of the geographies for legal reasons. the concern is mostly around the cases that use the “nominated shareholder” that is a lawyer and is hiding the true shareholder ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/54 "2016-04-04T22:29:49Z")
What I would like to know is who leaked the documents. 2.6 TB of data is a staggering amount. I understand that Mossack Fonseca is blaming some kind of intrusion by hackers, but, honestly… I doubt it. Very much. Besides, the leak took place at least a year ago (the journalists dealing with the information have spent one year poring over it). If there had really been a hacking incident… Are you telling me that the company did not detect _anything_ for a whole year after that hypothetical intrusion? (it seems that all this scandal caught Mossack Fonseca basically by surprise). My guess (totally pulled from my ass) is that this was an in-house thing. Some employee (or employees) with access to the computer systems. Who, right now, have a giant target painted on their backs. I hope for their sake that they manage to avoid being identified. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/55 "2016-04-05T00:43:30Z")
Regarding the question as to why there are no Americans mentioned; this writer theorizes that it’s because the western media organizations searching and disseminating the information are protecting the west by only releasing info on a few token westerners while focusing attention on people like Putin and Arab and Chinese leaders. > **[Corporate Media Gatekeepers Protect Western 1% From Panama Leak - Craig Murray](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/corporate-media-gatekeepers-protect-western-1-from-panama-leak/)** > > Whoever leaked the Mossack Fonseca papers appears motivated by a genuine desire to expose the system that enables the ultra wealthy to hide their massive stashes, often corruptly obtained and all involved in tax avoidance. These Panamanian lawyers... ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/56 "2016-04-05T01:54:37Z")
I don’t have an online cite for this, I’m not even sure if this story is available online yet, but Rachel Maddow just reported it. It’s related to a theft of £26 million of gold bullion from the Heathrow International Trading Estate on 26 November 1983. > **[Brink's-Mat robbery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brink's-MAT_robbery)** > > The Brink's-Mat robbery occurred at the Heathrow International Trading Estate, London, United Kingdom, on 26 November 1983 and was one of the largest robberies in British history. £26 million (equivalent to £93.3 million in 2021) worth of gold bullion, diamonds, and cash was stolen from a warehouse operated by Brink's-Mat, a former joint venture between US security company Brink's and London-based company MAT Transport. The bullion was the property of Johnson Matthey Bankers Ltd. Micky McAvo Th... According to Maddow, some of the leaked documents show that the thieves hired Mossack Fonseca to create a shell company to launder the proceeds through. Supposedly the documents show that officials at Mossack Fonseca knew the source of the money and did not report it to authorities. Take this all with a grain of salt as I have no other cite, and I’m posting this from memory. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/57 "2016-04-05T01:55:49Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Regarding the question as to why there are no Americans mentioned; this writer theorizes that it’s because the western media organizations searching and disseminating the information are protecting the west by only releasing info on a few token westerners while focusing attention on people like Putin and Arab and Chinese leaders. > [Corporate Media Gatekeepers Protect Western 1% From Panama Leak - Craig Murray](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/corporate-media-gatekeepers-protect-western-1-from-panama-leak/) We know. > [@camille](#): > > The editor of the German Newspaper Süddeutsche Zeitung was asked on [twitter](https://twitter.com/ploechinger/status/716763595820941312) about the lack of US individuals in the documents and said, “Just wait for what is coming next.”\* > > - literal translation: Just wait what still comes. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/58 "2016-04-05T01:58:30Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I don’t have an online cite for this, I’m not even sure if this story is available online yet, but Rachel Maddow just reported it. > > It’s related to a theft of £26 million of gold bullion from the Heathrow International Trading Estate on 26 November 1983. > > [Brink's-Mat robbery - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brink's-MAT_robbery) > > According to Maddow, some of the leaked documents show that the thieves hired Mossack Fonseca to create a shell company to launder the proceeds through. Supposedly the documents show that officials at Mossack Fonseca knew the source of the money and did not report it to authorities. > > Take this all with a grain of salt as I have no other cite, and I’m posting this from memory. It is online. > **[How Mossack Fonseca helped hide millions from Britain’s biggest gold bullion...](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/brinks-mat-how-mossack-fonseca-helped-hide-millions)** > > Law firm’s co-founder Jürgen Mossack advised company linked to infamous 1983 Brink’s-Mat heist ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/59 "2016-04-05T03:06:58Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Apparently, they haven’t yet released the big findings on Americans yet. > > Given the sheer quantity of money that went missing from the Clinton’s charity, and the persistent rumors of their committing a number of financial shenanigans over their career, it seems likely that Hillary gets hit with a whammy once they release the American section. > > Of course, Trump probably will as well. I suspect most Americans, deep down, would be perfectly happy if both Her Royal Highness and The Donald were forced to flee the country. Maybe the Democrats & Republicans could make a deal? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/60 "2016-04-05T03:17:55Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I suspect most Americans, deep down, would be perfectly happy if both Her Royal Highness and The Donald were forced to flee the country. > > Maybe the Democrats & Republicans could make a deal? I assume you mean Hillary Clinton? I think you are sadly mistaken. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=4)