# The Panama Papers - Mossack Fonseca leak **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136 "2016-04-03T23:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/61 "2016-04-05T03:28:34Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > What I would like to know is who leaked the documents. > > 2.6 TB of data is a staggering amount. Most likely a systems administrator, who if he/she is smart left the company months ago and hopefully moved overseas. Keep in mind that nowadays 2.6TB can fit onto a tiny 2.5 inch HD or SSD. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/62 "2016-04-05T05:25:08Z")
Australian Tax Office has confirmed it is investigating 800 people named in the Panama papers. > **[Panama papers: Banks in the spotlight as ATO gets fresh list of Mossack...](https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/ato-gets-fresh-list-of-australian-rich-tax-skirters-20160404-gnxwud.html)** > > The average tax paying Australian must be feeling futility fatigue as yet another round of explosive revelations the that super rich have skirted many millions in tax. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/63 "2016-04-05T09:25:32Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Also of note in the UK is the PM David Cameron’s father is named in the leak. I mention this so that this makes (a little) sense: > > A man, a plan, a cad (e.g. dodger) X at risk? Cam’s da bad? Smack sir! Tax reg dodged, a canal, Panama Wow. Hah! Wow! Did … Did you make that up? ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/64 "2016-04-05T09:56:33Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Wow. Hah! Wow! > > Did … > > Did you make that up? Yes, after many false starts. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/65 "2016-04-05T10:01:40Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Most likely a systems administrator, who if he/she is smart left the company months ago and hopefully moved overseas. Keep in mind that nowadays 2.6TB can fit onto a tiny 2.5 inch HD or SSD. True. Even today, the fastest way to transfer massive amounts of data is by hand. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/66 "2016-04-05T10:18:38Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > True. Even today, the fastest way to transfer massive amounts of data is by hand. The movies told me you needed Tom Cruise, some lasers, a hacker in a van “jacked in to their network” and a beautiful mole to distract the guards/steal a password/add a touch of class to the proceedings. Actually, you need one pissed off guy and a memory stick. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/67 "2016-04-05T10:37:27Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Yes, after many false starts. Yay! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/68 "2016-04-05T12:45:03Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Most likely a systems administrator, who if he/she is smart left the company months ago and hopefully moved overseas. Keep in mind that nowadays 2.6TB can fit onto a tiny 2.5 inch HD or SSD. Yes, that amount of data is still too large to be likely to have been removed remotely. I don’t believe you can get a 2.5" SSD that large - 2 TB is the largest IIRC - but 3 TB and 4 TB external 2.5" HDDs are available. More concealable would be 512 GB SD cards. An additional likely suspect would be a disgruntled secretary or similar. That said, whoever leaked this has undoubtedly angered some very powerful and very nasty people, so I doubt they will live long. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/69 "2016-04-05T13:08:12Z")
2.6TB of scanned documents can be compressed to a tiny fraction of that space. It’s just not a massive amount amount of data in this day and age. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/70 "2016-04-05T13:17:50Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Yes, that amount of data is still too large to be likely to have been removed remotely. > > I don’t believe you can get a 2.5" SSD that large - 2 TB is the largest IIRC - but 3 TB and 4 TB external 2.5" HDDs are available. More concealable would be 512 GB SD cards. > > An additional likely suspect would be a disgruntled secretary or similar. > > That said, whoever leaked this has undoubtedly angered some very powerful and very nasty people, so I doubt they will live long. It’s interesting to speculate on how this was done. 6 SD cards could be sufficient, but it may not be that simple. From the Süddeutsche Zeitung website: > **[All you need to know about the Panama Papers](https://panamapapers.sueddeutsche.de/articles/56febff0a1bb8d3c3495adf4/)** > > 11.5 million documents, 214,000 shell companies: The Panama Papers are the largest data leak journalists have ever worked with. > [@](#): > > Over a year ago, an anonymous source contacted the Süddeutsche Zeitung (SZ) and submitted encrypted internal documents from Mossack Fonseca, a Panamanian law firm that sells anonymous offshore companies around the world. These shell companies enable their owners to cover up their business dealings, no matter how shady. > > In the months that followed, the number of documents continued to grow far beyond the original leak. Ultimately, SZ acquired about 2.6 terabytes of data, making the leak the biggest that journalists had ever worked with. The source wanted neither financial compensation nor anything else in return, apart from a few security measures. It sounds like it was leaked to Süddeutsche Zeitung slowly, in some manner not mentioned. So why not just mail 6 cards in a padded envelope? Why leak it slowly? Was it stolen slowly and leaked as it was being stolen? At first glance, that seems foolish. One would think that you’d want to be long gone before leaking anything, in case the leaking is exposed somehow. Maybe, for some reason, the leaker could only access the data in smaller pieces over time, and wanted to get as much out as quickly as possible in case he was caught or his access was shut down somehow. It’s even conceivable that he did lose access at some point and the 2.6TB isn’t everything he could have gotten. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/71 "2016-04-05T13:17:52Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > 2.6TB of scanned documents can be compressed to a tiny fraction of that space. It’s just not a massive amount amount of data in this day and age. If they even bothered to compress it. 2.6 TB is nothing. I mean, I’m no bank, and I have almost twice as much data storage space sitting on my desk right now. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/72 "2016-04-05T13:20:00Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > I have seen several reports that for a variety of reasons, Panama and Mossack Fonseca were not often used or popular with Americans. > > Also, I expect the Süddeutsche Zeitung to release this in a manner calculated to see more papers. Saving the most wanted for last. America is a common law country and Panama is a civil law country. A lot of the people that are involved seem to be in civil law countries. With that said, there are plenty of Americans hiding money in Switzerland so it might not mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/73 "2016-04-05T13:20:06Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > 2.6TB of scanned documents can be compressed to a tiny fraction of that space. It’s just not a massive amount amount of data in this day and age. This is true. There’s bound to be a lot of redundancy. Redundant data compresses well, since redundancy is what compression takes advantage of. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/74 "2016-04-05T13:21:55Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Regarding the question as to why there are no Americans mentioned; this writer theorizes that it’s because the western media organizations searching and disseminating the information are protecting the west by only releasing info on a few token westerners while focusing attention on people like Putin and Arab and Chinese leaders. > [Corporate Media Gatekeepers Protect Western 1% From Panama Leak - Craig Murray](https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2016/04/corporate-media-gatekeepers-protect-western-1-from-panama-leak/) Yeah, that’s what the communist Chinese government is telling its people too. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/75 "2016-04-05T13:23:34Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Apparently, they haven’t yet released the big findings on Americans yet. > > Given the sheer quantity of money that went missing from the Clinton’s charity, and the persistent rumors of their committing a number of financial shenanigans over their career, it seems likely that Hillary gets hit with a whammy once they release the American section. > > Of course, Trump probably will as well. If so, I hope it’s _very_ soon, otherwise both will have their parties’ primaries won before it comes out. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/76 "2016-04-05T13:28:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Yes, that amount of data is still too large to be likely to have been removed remotely. > > I don’t believe you can get a 2.5" SSD that large - 2 TB is the largest IIRC - but 3 TB and 4 TB external 2.5" HDDs are available. More concealable would be 512 GB SD cards. > > An additional likely suspect would be a disgruntled secretary or similar. > > That said, whoever leaked this has undoubtedly angered some very powerful and very nasty people, so I doubt they will live long. OTOH, he could become a gozillionaire. Remember the guy that got arrested for setting up wealthy clients with swiss bank accounts? He got $104 million from the IRS for helping them recover almost a billion dollars in tax revenue. Whoever leaked this information could become a billionaire with this information (the US is not the only country with whistleblower awards for tax evasion). > **[IRS pays $104 million to whistle-blower](https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/11/irs-pays-104-million-whistleblower/)** > > The IRS awarded the largest whistle-blower award in history — $104 million — to a former banker who gave information that helped expose a $20 billion offshore banking scheme, the recipient’s attorneys said Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/77 "2016-04-05T13:34:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > OTOH, he could become a gozillionaire. > > Remember the guy that got arrested for setting up wealthy clients with swiss bank accounts? He got $104 million from the IRS for helping them recover almost a billion dollars in tax revenue. Whoever leaked this information could become a billionaire with this information (the US is not the only country with whistleblower awards for tax evasion). > > [http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/11/irs-pays-104-million-whistleblower/](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/sep/11/irs-pays-104-million-whistleblower/) Yes, but he or she would have to reveal themselves to collect any reward, and dollars are worthless if you’re dead; and we know that Putin, for example, can seemingly have people killed wherever he wants. You’d have to live in the shadows wondering if your next Starbucks latte will contain a dose of polonium. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/78 "2016-04-05T14:26:55Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > 2.6 TB of data is a staggering amount. I understand that Mossack Fonseca is blaming some kind of intrusion by hackers, but, honestly… I doubt it. Very much. > > Besides, the leak took place at least a year ago (the journalists dealing with the information have spent one year poring over it). If there had really been a hacking incident… Are you telling me that the company did not detect _anything_ for a whole year after that hypothetical intrusion? (it seems that all this scandal caught Mossack Fonseca basically by surprise). > > My guess (totally pulled from my ass) is that this was an in-house thing. Some employee (or employees) with access to the computer systems. It may or may not be true of Panamanian law firms (and/or Fonseca specifically), but US law firms are very, very bad at cybersecurity. My educated guess is that something like 5% are adequately protected against outside intrusions. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/79 "2016-04-05T15:36:51Z")
The Seattle Times just posted a [story](http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/americans-including-a-bellevue-man-show-up-in-panama-papers/) about American clients. > [@](#): > > Determining a precise number of Americans in the data is difficult. There are at least 200 scanned individual U.S. passports. Some appear to be American retirees purchasing real estate in places like Costa Rica and Panama. Also in the database, about 3,500 shareholders of offshore companies who list U.S. addresses. And almost 3,100 companies are tied to offshore professionals based in Miami, New York and other parts of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/80 "2016-04-05T16:25:11Z")
Gunnlaugsson has [resigned](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iceland-prime-minister-sigmundur-dav-o-gunnlaugsson-quits-over-panama-papers-tax-haven-scandal-a6969911.html). Possibly the first of many. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=5)