# The Panama Papers - Mossack Fonseca leak **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2016, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136 "2016-04-03T23:29:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/81 "2016-04-05T16:55:09Z")
If I were Icelandic, I sure as heck wouldn’t keep my money in an Iclelandic bank. Didn’t the three big ones default a few years back? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/82 "2016-04-05T19:32:23Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > I suspect most Americans, deep down, would be perfectly happy if both Her Royal Highness and The Donald were forced to flee the country. > > Maybe the Democrats & Republicans could make a deal? In my ideal fantasy world, the various candidates would turn out to have involvement precisely reflecting their moral and intellectual standing. So my fantasy would play out something like this … Bernie has no involvement and no tax irregularities. Hillary turns out to not only be one of the largest of the American tax swindlers, but to have a part-time job rounding up new clients for Mossack Fonseca. Further consternation arises when the entire 2.6 terabyte information leak is traced to an unsecured server in Hillary’s basement. Trump is not implicated. It turns out that he’s too stupid to understand tax havens and in any case has zero trust for anyone south of the Rio Grande. Further investigation, however, finds millions in undeclared taxable income in cash hidden in his underwear drawer and protected by mousetraps. Suspicion falls on Ted Cruz when someone points out to him that “Mossack Fonseca” is an anagram for “Ass Face Mocks On” and Cruz cannot stop giggling. He becomes seriously implicated in the Mossack Fonseca scandal when investigators discover that he owns the place. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/83 "2016-04-05T20:03:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Am I the only one wondering about the math, here? 2.6 terrabytes containing details of 200,000 offshore shells means 13 megs per shell. How exactly are they using up all of that space? I could go into a lot of detail about a shell company in less than a kilobyte. Is every page of this thing a full-color high-resolution image, or something? It seems to me that all that the large filesize does is make it practically impossible to sift through the data. My theory is that most of it is the porn stash of the Catholic Church. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/84 "2016-04-05T20:19:30Z")
Various sources have stated that the data was mostly scanned image files of documents, that they had to run through OCR to turn into searchable text. That explains the 2.6TB. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/85 "2016-04-05T20:32:21Z")
> [@jasg](#): > > A multi-national group,of journalists has spent a year digging into this data. So, what will happen? > [@TriPolar](#): > > Nothing. > [@TriPolar](#): > > Oh, you got me there! Frosty the Snowman may lose his job. Some of these guys will lose a tiny fraction of their ill-gotten gains. And now they have to find a new place to hide their money. What a global impact! > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Gunnlaugsson has [resigned](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/iceland-prime-minister-sigmundur-dav-o-gunnlaugsson-quits-over-panama-papers-tax-haven-scandal-a6969911.html). Possibly the first of many. Care to guess again? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/86 "2016-04-05T20:36:44Z")
> [@ShadowFacts](#): > > Care to guess again? To be far he’s the PM of a country with 300,000 people, less than some unincorporated towns in the US. But you can bet that the IRS has already been in negotiation to get their hands on the raw data, probably from before this went public. They will almost certainly cut backroom deals with the richest people that avoid jail time but it could still take down a few more heads of state (or candidates for high office… ) ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/87 "2016-04-06T12:04:30Z")
The brother of Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager is a lobbyist for a Russian bank, Sberbank, that’s been linked to Mossack Fonseca. It’s difficult to find 3 or 4 paragraphs that really explain this, so I suggest reading the article, which isn’t very long. > **[‘Panama Papers’ Implicate Client of Clinton-Linked Lobbying Firm](https://freebeacon.com/issues/panama-papers-implicate-podesta-client/)** > > A firm with ties to the Clinton campaign registered to lobby for a Russian bank weeks before a leak exposed the bank’s role in secret financial dealings. > [@](#): > > One of the three lobbyists working on the account is Tony Podesta, a bundler for the Clinton campaign and the brother of campaign chairman John Podesta, who co-founded the firm. > … > According to the Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project, a consortium of journalists exploring the Panama Papers leak, Sberbank and Troika Dialog have ties to companies used by members of Putin’s inner circle to funnel state resources into lucrative private investments. > … > Despite its apparent ties to the interests of Russia’s political elite, Sberbank is officially a private company. That allows the Podesta Group to report it as a standard lobbying client, rather than a state-owned entity, which would trigger the more detailed lobbyist reporting requirements of the Foreign Agent Registration Act. Granted, there are several degrees of separation here but, at the very least, this presents an appearance problem for Clinton, at least IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/88 "2016-04-06T12:54:26Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > The brother of Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager is a lobbyist for a Russian bank, Sberbank, that’s been linked to Mossack Fonseca. It’s difficult to find 3 or 4 paragraphs that really explain this, so I suggest reading the article, which isn’t very long. > [‘Panama Papers’ Implicate Client of Clinton-Linked Lobbying Firm](http://freebeacon.com/issues/panama-papers-implicate-podesta-client/) > Granted, there are several degrees of separation here but, at the very least, this presents an appearance problem for Clinton, at least IMHO. this is a very weird thing to write _“That allows the Podesta Group to report it as a standard lobbying client, rather than a state-owned entity”_ I do not know of any place in the world that thinks that because a private company does business with officialdom it some how is a state owned entity. I am guessing this is a very partisan ideological website to write something so strange. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/89 "2016-04-06T13:09:49Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > …and what new regulations will be put in place will make it an even greater hassle for some regular person/business to do regular banking for legitimate purposes offshore. Has already happened before. Unfortunately, this is exactly what will happen. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/90 "2016-04-06T14:43:35Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > this is a very weird thing to write _“That allows the Podesta Group to report it as a standard lobbying client, rather than a state-owned entity”_ > > I do not know of any place in the world that thinks that because a private company does business with officialdom it some how is a state owned entity. > > I am guessing this is a very partisan ideological website to write something so strange. Is Sberbank really a private company? It seems like it’s in a gray area. > **[Sberbank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sberbank_of_Russia#Ownership)** > > PJSC Sberbank (Russian: Сбербанк, initially a contraction of Russian: сберегательный банк, romanized: sberegatelnyy bank, lit. 'savings bank') is a Russian majority state-owned banking and financial services company headquartered in Moscow. As the Russian successor entity of the State Labor Savings Banks System of the USSR, it was called Sberbank of Russia until 2015, and in 2020 further shortened its brand to Sber. Following the termination of its operations in the European Union in the i By 2... > [@](#): > > The majority shareholder of Sberbank is the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, owning 50%+1 voting share of Sberbank’s voting shares. The rest of the shares is dispersed among portfolio, private and other investors with an estimated shareholding of over 43% held by foreigners.[21] > > Russia’s central bank cannot sell its stake without a change in Russia’s laws. But yes, it seems like it’s only right-wing sites that are reporting this, so it should be taken with a grain of salt, but I doubt that it’s been fabricated out of whole cloth. The basic facts are likely more or less correct. I don’t know that this can fairly be held against Clinton, but rightly or wrongly it will be used against her. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/91 "2016-04-06T14:43:36Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Granted, there are several degrees of separation here but, at the very least, this presents an appearance problem for Clinton, at least IMHO. As much as it would be fun to see Clinton taken out by this, I’d vote that “n-degrees of separation” is all it amounts to. If you look hard enough, you could probably find a legal or financial connection between Vladimir Putin and the Dalai Lama. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/92 "2016-04-06T17:09:57Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > If I were Icelandic, I sure as heck wouldn’t keep my money in an Iclelandic bank. Didn’t the three big ones default a few years back? Iceland responded to the default by confiscating foreign deposits and guaranteeing the funds of Icelandic depositors, while essentially forbidding them to convert their money into foreign currency. I think by now the country has repaid much of what was owed to foreign entities and has started to lift the capital controls, but Icelanders may still not have many other options for their money. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/93 "2016-04-06T19:28:16Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > The entire affair seems to me just another instant of a recurring and irremediable breach of democracy and failure of capitalism. 😛 There’s a real shocker. You’ve found yet another thing that proves, to you anyway, that democracy and capitalism are failures and we’d all be so much better off with whatever it is you believe in! Kind of funny how a lot of this is connected to Putin’s buddies, and that in Russia it’s having almost zero impact while in places that actually HAVE democracy it seems to be having a more profound impact (and also being more widely reported…I hear the Chinese are doing their normal bit of suppressing and stifling the story). I’m sure that this somehow plays into your overall theme though…somehow… ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/94 "2016-04-06T19:39:20Z")
> [@XT](#): > > 😛 There’s a real shocker. You’ve found yet another thing that proves, to you anyway, that democracy and capitalism are failures and we’d all be so much better off with whatever it is you believe in! > > Kind of funny how a lot of this is connected to Putin’s buddies, and that in Russia it’s having almost zero impact while in places that actually HAVE democracy it seems to be having a more profound impact (and also being more widely reported…I hear the Chinese are doing their normal bit of suppressing and stifling the story). I’m sure that this somehow plays into your overall theme though…somehow… To be fair to **UY Scuti** he didn’t say that democracy was a failure. He said that this was a breach of democracy. In other words, an overriding or bypassing of democracy, which is not necessarily an indication that democracy itself is a failure. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/95 "2016-04-06T19:43:12Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > To be fair to **UY Scuti** he didn’t say that democracy was a failure. He said that this was a breach of democracy. In other words, an overriding or bypassing of democracy, which is not necessarily an indication that democracy itself is a failure. Seems to me that this sort of thing shows why democracies work so well. In places that don’t have democracies and that are affected (or even aren’t affected, such as in China) this story is being suppressed or so distorted that most people in those countries have no idea what’s going on, while in countries with democracies that actually work (thus negating Russia :p) it’s getting wide distribution. Whether people can figure out why it’s important or not (such as many seemingly in this thread) is certainly another issue, but not one that shows a ‘breach’ in either democracy OR capitalism. And to be fair to me, this isn’t the first thread I’ve seen UY Scuti sing this theme. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/96 "2016-04-06T19:59:21Z")
> [@PlaceboTarget](#): > > The entire affair seems to me just another instant of a recurring and irremediable breach of democracy and failure of capitalism. I don’t know why this is a failure of capitalism. Seems to be more a triumph of capitalism over the rule of law, or democracy if you prefer. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/97 "2016-04-06T20:03:38Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Seems to me that this sort of thing shows why democracies work so well. In places that don’t have democracies and that are affected (or even aren’t affected, such as in China) this story is being suppressed or so distorted that most people in those countries have no idea what’s going on, while in countries with democracies that actually work (thus negating Russia :p) it’s getting wide distribution. Whether people can figure out why it’s important or not (such as many seemingly in this thread) is certainly another issue, but not one that shows a ‘breach’ in either democracy OR capitalism. > > And to be fair to me, this isn’t the first thread I’ve seen UY Scuti sing this theme. 😉 Okay, I’m not really familiar with **UY Scuti**. For whatever reason I don’t recall seeing many of his or her posts. I agree that a properly functioning democracy is the system that is best equipped to respond to something like this. Whether we currently have a _properly functioning_ democracy is another question. It is interesting to note that the exposure itself was not due to a properly functioning political or legal system of any type. It was instead the result of an act that would be illegal in nearly any jurisdiction, and yet we all (myself included) seem to think that it’s a good thing. What can we make of that? Beats me. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/98 "2016-04-07T03:03:22Z")
“Panama Papers firm linked to over 1,000 U.S. companies” > **[Panama Papers firm linked to over 1,000 U.S. companies](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/04/05/panama-papers-firm-linked-1000-plus-us-companies/82670334/)** > > The law firm at the hub of a global financial scandal has links to more than 1,000 U.S. companies, formed mostly in Nevada and Wyoming since 2001, but appears to have largely escaped the scrutiny of U.S. > [@](#): > > The majority of U.S.-based companies linked to Mossack Fonseca were formed in Nevada by M.F. Corporate Services (Nevada) Limited, a one-employee company based out of a low-slung tile-roofed office building 20 miles from the Las Vegas strip. MF Nevada has served as the registered agent for 1,026 business entities since 2001, according to USA TODAY’s review of Nevada business documents. > > Publicly available information about many of the Nevada corporations is limited to the fact that MF Nevada is the registered agent and a listing of the officers. Many of the officers are businesses themselves — meaning no individuals are listed in corporate records — and typically have addresses in Anguilla, the Seychelles, Panama or another foreign country. > > Nearly all of those companies were incorporated in Nevada and Wyoming, two states with permissive corporate secrecy laws. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/99 "2016-04-07T16:56:04Z")
[New shocking revelations](http://newsthump.com/2016/04/06/panama-papers-reveal-that-bears-shit-in-the-woods/) ---
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136/100 "2016-04-07T19:48:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > What does either the democracy or the capitalism have to do with this? > > The majority of persons cited are the kleptocrats from non-democratic or faux-democratic countries and their actions have not a thing specific to the capitalism. I think everybody knows David Cameron is only the tip of the iceberg in terms of democracy breach and capitalism failure. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-panama-papers-mossack-fonseca-leak/751136.md?page=6)