# The Paradox of ancient, crumbling abandoned cities in stories set in the ancient world **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** middle-earth\ **Created:** [March 24, 2025, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029 "2025-03-24T13:28:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029/82 "2025-03-26T22:40:37Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Just how physically large would e.g. Wikipedia be if engraved on stone slabs? [Here’s a starting point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_in_volumes) if you want to try to calculate a paper-to-slab conversion. ETA: iirc there’s someplace out there that’s dedicated to archiving stuff on fired porcelain tablets. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029/83 "2025-03-26T22:52:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@CalMeacham](#): > > > > My point in the OP was that there are written works of fantasy set a very long time ago, and the paradox is that they have encountered ruins much, much older than the period they are set in. It’s not just about people encountering ruins, it’s the point of modern authors writing stories set in an ancient time that posits an even older civilization. > > Why is that a paradox? Every story is set in the present - its own present. If we have ancient ruins today, why shouldn’t people in the past have them, or people in the future for that matter? Ancient ruins are an ordinary fact of life, like sunshine or the weather. Yeah, Ancient Romans didn’t know they lived in “Ancient” Rome. There was old shit even way back then. There’s less of an age difference between Cleopatra and the Empire State Building than between Cleopatra and the Great Pyramid. Civilization only goes back 5,000 years or so, while humans have lived for like 100,000 years. So from a fictional standpoint, it’s interesting to imagine ancient, even advanced civilizations that existed 10,000 years ago that have all but vanished from the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029/84 "2025-03-26T22:58:24Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > it’s interesting to imagine ancient, even advanced civilizations that existed 10,000 years ago that have all but vanished from the Earth. Cute idea that’s been done many times; but you’d have to explain not only why we don’t find any evidence of that civilization but also something else: You’d have to explain why there isn’t a discontinuity in the archeology of stone tools, with an early Neolithic ten thousand years before the more recent one. That’s why I postulated a race of genus _Homo_ but not _Sapiens_ achieving civilization 400,000 or more years ago. That’s a lot more time for stuff to get lost. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2025, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029/85 "2025-03-26T23:07:36Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > [Here’s a starting point](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Size_in_volumes) if you want to try to calculate a paper-to-slab conversion. This is also _almost_ on point: **[Updating a Printed Wikipedia - What-if by xkcd](https://what-if.xkcd.com/59/)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-paradox-of-ancient-crumbling-abandoned-cities-in-stories-set-in-the-ancient-world/1016029.md?page=4)