# The past tense of Lead is Led
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [May 29, 2019, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700 "2019-05-29T08:13:43Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2019, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/61 "2019-06-01T03:21:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#):
>
> Another type of abbreviation is an initialiam, which is pronounced as a series of individual letters. FBI, CIA, NBC, are initialiams.
No, I’m pretty sure that an “initialiam” is the thing that a mohel uses to perform a circumcision at a bris. Though I may be confusing it with some other Jewish ceremonial apparatus. 😉
Anyway, I think the sources quoted above pretty much settle the matter. The term **initialism** considerably predates “acronym” but is rarely used in modern language. Merriam-Webster makes clear that in common usage the meaning of “acronym” encompasses “initialism”, and Wikipedia goes further by listing examples of abbreviations that combine elements of both, making any distinction about as arbitrary – but much less useful – than which toppings are “best” on a pizza, as someone else pointed out.
> [@Atamasama](#):
>
> So this is kind of like arguing which pizza toppings are “best”. (The answer is of course pepperoni and extra cheese.)
An excellent point, but from a linguistic standpoint, this would be called the “base” of an excellent pizza, rather than an excellent pizza itself. Green pepper, onion, mushrooms and black olives must then be added. 🙂
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/62 "2019-06-01T05:37:34Z")
> [@panache45](#):
>
> And hmmm… what’s the past tense of “plead”?
In my perception, it depends on which definition of plead is being used. If you’re begging someone, then “pleaded.” For example, “She pleaded with me not to leave.”
When presenting a case for something, both “pleaded” and “pled” are common. “She pleaded her case for me to stay.” “She pled her case, and I listened.”
However, when declaring a legal plea, “pled” seems to be most common. “He pled guilty to the crime.” I would only expect “pleaded” in a formal legal document, or a newspaper that forces it as a matter of style.
Apparently, looking it up in the ([Merriam-Webster](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/plead)) dictionary, it can also be spelled “plead,” but this is less common. I would not use it. But I will use “pled” at least in legal contexts. And would stylistically choose “pled” in the second case if I was trying to be less formal.
I would, however, not say “She pled with me not to leave.” It just sounds wrong to me.
(I also note that “pled” predates pleaded, and it is rather strange that Google Chrome thinks it is a spelling error.)
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### Author:  [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2019, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/63 "2019-06-01T08:11:44Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> Which two did you click?
Two of the first four.
_“Let me rephrase the question, then: What right-wing talk show host and/or bumper sticker lead you to that conclusion?”_ Past tense would be better, but present tense not wrong.
_“But one of the main conditions that would lead to a mandatory arrest is if there are visible signs of injury. So the number one factor that lead to her arrest was …”_ Ouch! :o I saw the first red lead which, as you know, is correct. I missed the second, wrong, red lead.
Nevermind. :o
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### Author:  [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)
#### Post date: [June 1, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/64 "2019-06-01T13:39:45Z")
I leaded a meeting yesterday.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/65 "2019-06-02T01:16:30Z")
Instead of using an awkward construction like “past/present/future,” we use the word “tense.” As in: “That verb has the wrong tense for the sentence.”
Is there a similar handy term for singular/plural? “That’s the wrong ???”
> [@septimus](#):
>
> _“Let me rephrase the question, then: What right-wing talk show host and/or bumper sticker lead you to that conclusion?”_ Past tense would be better, but present tense not wrong.
I agree that present tense _could_ be correct in that sentence, but either way that sentence as written is clearly wrong. For a correct present tense it would have to be “leads,” not “lead.”
I think we can all agree that it is overwhelmingly more likely that the mistake was using “lead” instead of “led” – a common mistake we’ve all seen – as opposed to messing up the singular/plural forms of the present tense of lead.
> [@wolfpup](#):
>
> No, what you should NOT have said is “_Come join us in the present day, grandpa! The AP Stylebook stopped capitalizing “internet” years ago, much like nobody capitalizes “phonograph” anymore either_.” The implication that what the AP Stylebook set out as their standard somehow applies to the whole world obviously isn’t true, and especially not in the US, where you appear to be residing, and where the opposite convention still prevails.
I’m not sure you understand what I was saying.
History has shown us that some words start out as always capitalized, universally agreed by everybody. Then over time they gradually stop being capitalized by more and more recognized sources, until nobody capitalizes them anymore.
I offered the example of “phonograph” to demonstrate the phenomenon, then I pointed out one recognized source that has stopped capitalizing “internet” as evidence that internet is one of those words. I also pointed out that they stopped capitalizing it years ago to demonstrate that they didn’t immediately change their minds.
It’s clear that even if many or most people still capitalize internet, the trend is to stop doing that. Meaning that if you’re in a “capital I” internet context, you’re on the wrong side of history.
As a shorthand way of implying that capitalizing internet is on the wrong side of history, I employed the good-natured ribbing of “Come join us in the present day, grandpa.”
I do apologize for being too concise and/or subtle in my statement such that you were unable to grasp what I was saying.
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### Author:  [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/66 "2019-06-02T01:21:19Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> Instead of using an awkward construction like “past/present/future,” we use the word “tense.” As in: “That verb has the wrong tense for the sentence.”
>
> Is there a similar handy term for singular/plural? “That’s the wrong ???”
Conjugation? The verb is incorrectly conjugated based on the number of the subject.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/67 "2019-06-02T01:23:44Z")
Yeah, I think that’s the term I was thinking of. Thanks much!
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/68 "2019-06-02T01:50:42Z")
Sorry, but I abandoned this thread in the face of all of you who are just plain WRONG.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/69 "2019-06-02T04:46:25Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> I’m not sure you understand what I was saying.
>
> History has shown us that some words start out as always capitalized, universally agreed by everybody. Then over time they gradually stop being capitalized by more and more recognized sources, until nobody capitalizes them anymore.
>
> I offered the example of “phonograph” to demonstrate the phenomenon, then I pointed out one recognized source that has stopped capitalizing “internet” as evidence that internet is one of those words. I also pointed out that they stopped capitalizing it years ago to demonstrate that they didn’t immediately change their minds.
>
> It’s clear that even if many or most people still capitalize internet, the trend is to stop doing that. Meaning that if you’re in a “capital I” internet context, you’re on the wrong side of history.
>
> As a shorthand way of implying that capitalizing internet is on the wrong side of history, I employed the good-natured ribbing of “Come join us in the present day, grandpa.”
>
> I do apologize for being too concise and/or subtle in my statement such that you were unable to grasp what I was saying.
I understood you just fine. You implied that capitalizing “Internet” was archaic and obsolete and nobody does it anymore. But in fact according to the chart I linked in the Oxford Dictionaries site, as of 2016 about two-thirds of occurrences of the word were still capitalized in the US, including by the venerable _New Yorker_ magazine. If what you meant was that the usage is gradually changing, you’re probably right, but you should have said what you meant, as mind-reading is not one of my strong points, and what you actually did imply about current usage was wrong.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/70 "2019-06-02T06:20:43Z")
> [@EllisDee](#):
>
> > [@septimus](#):
> >
> > Two of the first four.
> >
> > _“Let me rephrase the question, then: What right-wing talk show host and/or bumper sticker lead you to that conclusion?”_ Past tense would be better, but present tense not wrong.
>
> I agree that present tense _could_ be correct in that sentence, but either way that sentence as written is clearly wrong. For a correct present tense it would have to be “leads,” not “lead.”
Not correct. It should be “lead”. If the conjunction was “or”, the subject would be definitely singular, but since it is “and/or”, the subject could be plural (_talk show host **and** bumper sticker_), so “lead” is entirely appropriate. Perhaps more appropriate.
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### Author:  [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/71 "2019-06-02T14:02:10Z")
> [@OldOlds](#):
>
> For all intensive purposes their the same.
Their WHAT is the same?
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### Author:  [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/72 "2019-06-02T21:02:16Z")
> [@panache45](#):
>
> Their WHAT is the same?
Clearly their purposes have the same level of intensity.
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### Author:  [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/73 "2019-06-02T23:07:04Z")
But what of the dolphins?
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### Author:  [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/74 "2019-06-02T23:31:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> But what of the dolphins?
You’ll find them over their, in tents.
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### Author:  [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)
#### Post date: [June 2, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-past-tense-of-lead-is-led/834700/75 "2019-06-02T23:58:28Z")
> [@eschereal](#):
>
> Not correct. It should be “lead”. If the conjunction was “or”, the subject would be definitely singular, but since it is “and/or”, the subject could be plural (_talk show host **and** bumper sticker_), so “lead” is entirely appropriate. Perhaps more appropriate.
Interesting.
There doesn’t appear to be an official rule on how to match the verb to an and/or construction. For me personally, I think I lean toward the proximity rule (so singular because “or” is closer to the verb) but I’m 100% positive I could come up with examples where (to me) it should clearly be singular and other examples where it should clearly be plural.
Fortunately for the OP, it’s a secondary example. It’s a restating of a previous post where the first iteration was clearly singular.
But either way, thanks much, I enjoy reading up on esoteric language rules so going down that rabbit hole was fun.
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