# "The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure" and Amazon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388 "2010-11-12T03:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/61 "2010-11-12T14:54:26Z")
There is a side of this not being discussed which is how reactive and stupid Twitter is. Like I said earlier, I saw slews of people retweeting their “boycott Amazon!” messages who a couple of weeks ago had tricked out their avatars in favor of “banned books week.” A lot of the books ALA calls “banned or challenged,” are a lot less like censorship than this one. So what it really boils down to is “I’m against banning books unless it’s a book I want banned.” I don’t think social networking action really gives people time to think before they pick up a pitch fork. It’s so automatic; you just click your outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/62 "2010-11-12T15:20:23Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > And if Muslims don’t want Christians mad at them, they should just put their not-a-mosque somewhere else! And if bookstores don’t want fallout from customers, they should just pull every single book off the shelf that anyone finds objectionable! And so on. That’s a ridiculous analogy. We’re talking about a retailer who would like to stay in business and make money. If they’re selling something so vile that the majority of their customers register displeasure with it … why the hell would they even think of keeping it on their shelves? This isn’t the government dictating anything. It’s the consumers. Free speech/religion issues, like the Mosque thing, don’t come within a country mile of this situation. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/63 "2010-11-12T16:31:56Z")
If you bought this book can you imagine the types of things Amazon would recommend for you in their emails? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/64 "2010-11-12T17:32:02Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > That’s a ridiculous analogy. We’re talking about a retailer who would like to stay in business and make money. If they’re selling something so vile that the majority of their customers register displeasure with it … why the hell would they even think of keeping it on their shelves? > > This isn’t the government dictating anything. It’s the consumers. Free speech/religion issues, like the Mosque thing, don’t come within a country mile of this situation. No, we’re talking about a mob bullying the retailer into dropping a product from their store. In every case the situation is one where a mob of people tried to stop someone else from exercising a legal freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/65 "2010-11-12T17:43:38Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > No, we’re talking about a mob bullying the retailer into dropping a product from their store. In every case the situation is one where a mob of people tried to stop someone else from exercising a legal freedom. That “mob” as you call them have rights that they are exercising as well. I spend my money where I choose to spend it. If you have a store, and in that store is something that offends me, I will spend my money at your competitor’s store. I may or may not tell you that I am shopping at your competitor because of whatever you have that I find offensive. If I do tell you, then you, as a businessman, must decide whether you wish to win my business by removing the offensive material or not. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/66 "2010-11-12T17:52:09Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > That’s a ridiculous analogy. We’re talking about a retailer who would like to stay in business and make money. If they’re selling something so vile that the majority of their customers register displeasure with it … why the hell would they even think of keeping it on their shelves? Amazon was not going to go out of business if it kept selling that book. You can also find _Mein Kampf_ and the works of the Marquis de Sade (which includes graphic descriptions of the rape, torture and murder of toddlers) on Amazon and on the shelves of Barnes & Noble, yet B&N seems to stay in business. My real issue anyway is not with Amazon, but with people who feel it’s their mission to monitor everything Amazon sells to other people – and why aren’t those people trying to get Amazon to pull _Mein Kampf_? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/67 "2010-11-12T17:58:09Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That “mob” as you call them have rights that they are exercising as well. This continues to be a fatuous and irrelevant point. No one is saying they don’t have the right. We are saying they are douchebags. People at Klan rallies are excercising their rights of free speech as well. They doesn’t mean they aren’t douchebags. > [@](#): > > I spend my money where I choose to spend it. If you have a store, and in that store is something that offends me, I will spend my money at your competitor’s store. I may or may not tell you that I am shopping at your competitor because of whatever you have that I find offensive. If I do tell you, then you, as a businessman, must decide whether you wish to win my business by removing the offensive material or not. Why do you care what that store sells to other people? How does it harm you? Are you offended that Amazon sells _Mein Kampf_? Do you refuse to shop anywhere that does sell it? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/68 "2010-11-12T18:01:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > No maiden was ever ruined by a book, nor any child diddled. The fact of the book is that it, by its very nature, is harmless. I see _someone_ has never gotten a paper cut. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/69 "2010-11-12T18:01:18Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My real issue anyway is not with Amazon, but with people who feel it’s their mission to monitor everything Amazon sells to other people – and why aren’t those people trying to get Amazon to pull _Mein Kampf_? That’s an illegitimate argument. You apparently object to **Mein Kampf**. Other people may feel that the book has some historical value. They are not required to submit their preferences to you for approval before voting with their wallets. I won’t shop at a store that posts big signs saying “Saints Fans Suck!”. I might shop at a store that posts big signs saying “Vikings Fans Suck!”. That’s my right, and my choice. You may very well avoid the anti-Vikings store, but have no problem with the anti-Saints store. Or, you may avoid both stores because you object to signs saying anyone sucks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/70 "2010-11-12T18:01:48Z")
I don’t know that I’d go so far as calling these people “douchebags”, but my outrage meter towards Amazon is reading pretty damn close to Zero. I really don’t give a damn what they sell, as long as it’s legal. And if it’s not legal, then take them to court. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/71 "2010-11-12T18:02:08Z")
Look, it just isn’t true that Amazon carries “everything”. It doesn’t. Sure, it’s the largest bookseller in the country. That doesn’t mean that you can get every book ever written there. And dudes, this is a _self-published_ book. Amazon can decide what goods it wants to sell, and we can decide whether to buy them or not. Amazon doesn’t owe it to America to sell every book ever published or self-published, and neither does America owe it to Amazon to buy from them. Don’t like the way Amazon does business? Buy the book straight from the pedophile author, then. They didn’t censor his book, they just aren’t selling it. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/72 "2010-11-12T18:05:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > …why aren’t those people trying to get Amazon to pull _Mein Kampf_? People have done that. Well, maybe not Amazon and _Mein Kampf_ (though I wouldn’t be a bit surprised), but every notable bookseller has faced objections to something they offered for sale. My college bookstore was once the target of a protest against their selling the _Malleus Maleficarum_, which was felt to represent bigotry against witches (it was published in 1486 and was required reading for a history class). Usually the objections are coming from a small group and the seller judges that continuing to sell the item is worth more than the goodwill of the small group. Sometimes, as here, they make a different calculation. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/73 "2010-11-12T18:34:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That “mob” as you call them have rights that they are exercising as well. I spend my money where I choose to spend it. If you have a store, and in that store is something that offends me, I will spend my money at your competitor’s store. I may or may not tell you that I am shopping at your competitor because of whatever you have that I find offensive. If I do tell you, then you, as a businessman, must decide whether you wish to win my business by removing the offensive material or not. Thank God SOMEBODY in this country is FINALLY taking umbrage over something! But where DO you shop? Have you completely vetted the premises to make sure there’s not something that you find disagreeable? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/74 "2010-11-12T18:36:01Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > That’s an illegitimate argument. You apparently object to **Mein Kampf**. Not in the least. I just wonder why those who wish to interfere with free commerce regarding the pervert book do not also wish to do so with _Mein Kampf_ or _The Turner Diaries_ or any number of other offensive or incindiary titles which have arguably had demonstrably negative effects on society (the latter book was the inspiration and the blueprint for the Oklahoma City bombing, and the other title also played a role in some unpleasantness in the last century). > [@](#): > > Other people may feel that the book has some historical value. They are not required to submit their preferences to you for approval before voting with their wallets. I won’t shop at a store that posts big signs saying “Saints Fans Suck!”. I might shop at a store that posts big signs saying “Vikings Fans Suck!”. That’s my right, and my choice. You may very well avoid the anti-Vikings store, but have no problem with the anti-Saints store. Or, you may avoid both stores because you object to signs saying anyone sucks. No one is saying it’s isn’t your right. This continues to be a vacuous and meaningless point. Not one person in this thread is contending it. Incidentally, the issue isn’t just people quietly choosing not to buy books from Amazon (who cares about that?), but the active, aggressive attempts to bully them into removing it, the self-righteous harassment, online petitions, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/75 "2010-11-12T18:47:48Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > But where DO you shop? Have you completely vetted the premises to make sure there’s not something that you find disagreeable? Irrelevant. If I see something I don’t like, I may choose to shop elsewhere. I have no obligation to completely vet anything. I have no obligation to be “fair” to a merchant. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/76 "2010-11-12T18:51:12Z")
No one is saying you have an obligation to do anything. You are arguing with nobody. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/77 "2010-11-12T19:03:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > (Looks like another thread is **Dio** -ized, peeps) Actually, I think he’s being pretty reasonable in this thread. I think it’s an interesting issue. When it comes to a seller of books, they do have the right to self censor. But should they? I’m not really sure. When I look at the issue it’s usually from the perspective of a library, and usually to justify their purchases and things that they don’t purchase, a library will have a collection development policy. If they don’t buy a book or accept a gift, it could be just that that particular title doesn’t fit in with the library’s mission. Or that they only try to buy books of a certain quality–books that have gotten good reviews or won awards. Amazon, as a seller, is casting a wider net, though. Though, as **Dio** notes, if Amazon passes on this book, I don’t really know that that’s a good thing. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but for the people who are saying let’s protest this book…would you feel that way if, say, a conservative group was protesting the company selling And Tango Makes Three (a children’s story book about two male penguins who have find an egg and hatch/raise it together)? Or if people thought that Sendak’s In the Night Kitchen was pornography because the main character is naked in a few scenes. It seems a dangerous road to go down to say, “But our standards are RIGHT.” Personally, I think the pedophile book sounds gross and creepy, but from reading about censorship, there are people who have made ridiculous arguments about all kinds of books. There are any number of books that we could decide are wrong or creepy. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/78 "2010-11-12T19:05:25Z")
In any case, Amazon actually decided to sell it and were bullied into taking it offline. Yes, they did have the right to cave to public pressure, but it’s hardly the point being argued. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/79 "2010-11-12T19:08:02Z")
**Slit** said what I was thinking more betterer than I could have put it. And I think it’s become hip to declare that **Dio** has somehow hijacked a thread even when all he’s doing is debating the very point of the thread in the debate forum. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/80 "2010-11-12T19:13:16Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > In any case, Amazon actually decided to sell it and were bullied into taking it offline. Yes, they did have the right to cave to public pressure, but it’s hardly the point being argued. You seem to want to say that somehow Amazon has done a bad thing by making a business decision they believe to be in their best interest. And/or that consumers who influenced that decision have done a bad thing. I disagree with both notions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=5)