# "The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure" and Amazon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388 "2010-11-12T03:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/81 "2010-11-12T19:18:22Z")
It’s a rare day indeed that I agree with the esteemed Oakminster, but in this case, I agree completely. It’s hardly “being bullied.” ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/82 "2010-11-12T19:24:42Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > In any case, Amazon actually decided to sell it and were bullied into taking it offline. Yes, they did have the right to cave to public pressure, but it’s hardly the point being argued. I doubt an actual person actually “decided” to list the book. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/83 "2010-11-12T19:40:30Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Amazon recently came under scrutiny for selling _The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure._ Amazon’s initial response was to continue selling it. > > (This settlement is somewhat odd considering that Amazon refuses to sell graphic pornography.) > > Amazon later pulled the book, and they are now getting calls to pull more books. Hm. Too bad. It would have been very interesting to read the “Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought” entries. _(Zen and the Art of Child Molestation? The Tao of Pederasty?)_ Not to mention the Customer Reviews. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/84 "2010-11-12T19:52:22Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You seem to want to say that somehow Amazon has done a bad thing by making a business decision they believe to be in their best interest. And/or that consumers who influenced that decision have done a bad thing. I disagree with both notions. People who feel the need to busy themselves trying to bully booksellers into not selling books they don’t like are obnoxious. That is the opinion being expressed. Rights have nothing to do with. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/85 "2010-11-12T20:05:07Z")
I think this case is an excellent illustration of why self published books are generally self published. Most are complete trash. If I were charge of Amazon I would not sell anything that had not been vetted by an editor. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/86 "2010-11-12T20:06:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > I doubt an actual person actually “decided” to list the book. Amazon issued a press release before they pulled the book asserting their decision to keep it listed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/87 "2010-11-12T20:07:45Z")
Marginally relevant: Does anybody know why [Loompanics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loompanics) went out of business in 2006? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/88 "2010-11-12T20:10:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People who feel the need to busy themselves trying to bully booksellers into not selling books they don’t like are obnoxious. That is the opinion being expressed. Rights have nothing to do with. And there is no mention of rights in the quote you answered. I disagree with the opinion that people that make their preferences known to merchants are obnoxious. I disagree that it is bullying. I disagree that this is improper or undersirable conduct. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/89 "2010-11-12T20:13:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Marginally relevant: Does anybody know why [Loompanics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loompanics) went out of business in 2006? ☹ Besides the fact that they sold cheap shit that nobody wanted? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/90 "2010-11-12T20:14:26Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You seem to want to say that somehow Amazon has done a bad thing by making a business decision they believe to be in their best interest. And/or that consumers who influenced that decision have done a bad thing. I disagree with both notions. Well, yes. That’s nicely summarized. That is my position exactly. I would replace the first “bad” with “cowardly,” and the second “bad” with “bullying,” just for precision, but that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. And of course you can disagree with anything, although you’ve done a poor job of explaining your position to me in a way that makes you sound like you really grasp the issues at stake. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/91 "2010-11-12T20:14:53Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Besides the fact that they sold cheap shit that nobody wanted? A model that somehow kept them in business for 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/92 "2010-11-12T20:20:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Marginally relevant: Does anybody know why [Loompanics](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loompanics) went out of business in 2006? ☹ I thought of them when this thread started, too. My understanding is that it was just a matter of declining sales (_not_ government pressure as some claimed) and Mike Hoy decided to hang it up. Did you notice this bit, > [@Wikipedia](#): > > According to Gia Cosindas, [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com), Ebay, and Google refused to allow Loompanics to advertise on their sites, since some of the books’ content violates their editorial guidelines. So Amazon has “self-censored” before, effectively for a couple hundred books. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/93 "2010-11-12T20:27:39Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Well, yes. That’s nicely summarized. That is my position exactly. I would replace the first “bad” with “cowardly,” and the second “bad” with “bullying,” just for precision, but that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. And of course you can disagree with anything, although you’ve done a poor job of explaining your position to me in a way that makes you sound like you really grasp the issues at stake. What issues? From both retail and consumer perspectives, this is a business decision. For the former, to sell or not to sell. For the latter, to buy or not to buy. Businesses typically solicit customer input…they want to please as many people as possible. They also wish to avoid offending as many as possible. Customers sometimes choose to provide that input. Businesses do not exist to make moral statements. They exist to make money. To expect otherwise is silly. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/94 "2010-11-12T20:28:11Z")
Amazon also stopped carrying the video game RapeLay. I don’t blame them. I would actually take less exception to this if they never carried the book in the first place. It’s more the self-righteous mob aspect of it – like I said, many of whom only recently “spoke up!” for banned books week – that scares me. Once a few thousand people figure out that they can Tweet a bunch and CBS will pick up the story and booksellers will tremble in fear and take orders, we can expect every bookstore in America to look like Walmarts book section. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/95 "2010-11-12T20:32:06Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > What issues? From both retail and consumer perspectives, this is a business decision. For the former, to sell or not to sell. For the latter, to buy or not to buy. > > Businesses typically solicit customer input…they want to please as many people as possible. They also wish to avoid offending as many as possible. Customers sometimes choose to provide that input. > > Businesses do not exist to make moral statements. They exist to make money. To expect otherwise is silly. It’s been a fun game of table tennis, Oaky, but I think it’s in a loop of repetition and don’t see any point of continuing talking past each other. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/96 "2010-11-12T20:56:49Z")
I guess it’s impossible to be a purist when it comes to avoiding economic pressure from all sides to censor your product offerings. Everyone has their limits and ethics can be bent by the bottom line. And while I tend to lean towards the “sell what you want” school, I might change my mind if I was confronted with a book like, “How to make a 20 kiloton atomic bomb with 2 bobby pins and a stick of chewing gum and blow up most of NYC.” Unless it was a satire, of course. But if such a device were possible, what good would it do to NOT sell the blueprints? Wouldn’t the knowledge be available elsewhere, and uncontrollable? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/97 "2010-11-13T23:52:49Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Forget it, folks. What could have been an interesting thread has been turned into another episode of The **Dio** Show. :rolleyes: Has he been banned from GD? 😕 This book offends me. I am also offended by most self-help crap published. I am offended by Paulo Coelho and Dan Brown books. I am mildly annoyed by religious texts, and incensed about mediocre how-to books. I still don’t care if Amazon sells them. Amazon should have kept selling the book, and now the idiots that brought this guy and his pathetic book to our attention just did him a favor. Dummies! ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/98 "2010-11-14T00:05:04Z")
I find it very disconcerting that the people at Amazon do not know the meaning of the word “censorship.” Do they really think they have an obligation to print every book that’s written (and to even violate that belief with some subjects)? Or do they consider themselves our government? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/99 "2010-11-14T01:15:21Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I find it very disconcerting that the people at Amazon do not know the meaning of the word “censorship.” Do they really think they have an obligation to print every book that’s written (and to even violate that belief with some subjects)? > > Or do they consider themselves our government? Did Amazon use the word “censorship”? (Seriously, I can’t remember if they did) As far as Amazon choosing to sell it – that is their decision. Pulling it – well, you’re always going to have someone complain about SOMETHING you sell. Especially such a controversial work. The really amusing thing is that this author is probably going to sell a LOT more copies now after this whole incident. If I owned a bookstore, would I sell it? Probably not. Does Amazon have a right to do so? Absolutely, as long as it’s not violating any laws (kiddy porn, for example) But people also have a right to boycott Amazon over it. And Amazon can make the decision whether or not this hurts their bottom line. And quite frankly, I wouldn’t want to be one of those who had to make that decision. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/100 "2010-11-14T02:54:08Z")
Why is it not censorship? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=6)