# "The Pedophile’s Guide to Love and Pleasure" and Amazon **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 12, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388 "2010-11-12T03:23:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/101 "2010-11-14T03:05:56Z")
The exact words I found: “Amazon believes it is censorship not to sell certain books simply because we or others believe their message is objectionable.” They are correct. That is censorship. It’s basically the definition of censorship. Note that they said “because we or others believe their message is objectionable.” So no, they do not have to carry every book in the world (although they damn well nearly do.) But to REMOVE a book because others find it objectionable is basically what people mean by censorship. I do know that some definitions require the censor to be an official of some kind, but that’s kind of a red herring. Even the Hays Code wouldn’t be considered censorship by that narrow definition. In which case it’s just semantic soup. So we say, fine, it’s not censorship. It’s “cemsorship,” a word I made up that means exactly the same thing as what censorship means to most people. A de facto censorship by mass media and other industries. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/102 "2010-11-14T03:40:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s the opposite, actually. Who the fuck are you to decide what I’m allowed to buy? Are you my mommy? I’m not your mommy but how would you feel about a manual dedicated to people raping your mommy? Pedophilia is a crime and a guide dedicated to committing the crime is something any respectable business should avoid profiting from. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/103 "2010-11-14T03:47:31Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I’m not your mommy but how would you feel about a manual dedicated to people raping your mommy? Why would I feel any less charitably about it than a manual dedicted to teaching people how to molest my children? > [@](#): > > Pedophilia is a crime and a guide dedicated to committing the crime is something any respectable business should avoid profiting from. Lot’s of books describe how to commit crimes. There are books that tell you how to grow weed, make pipe bombs and cheat on your taxes too. It’s not my job to stop anyone from buying or selling them. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/104 "2010-11-14T04:00:33Z")
> [@cricetus](#): > > Why is it not censorship? Some people define censorship as a government action only. Only a government can prevent something from being sold everywhere, thru laws or regulation. A private organization has control of only its own actions and cannot “censor” the actions of others – it can try to influence it, but it doesn’t have absolute control. Others define censorship more broadly as anyone who prevents a product from being sold by their own non-governmental group. In between these two defs we have defacto censorship, where a large outfit like Amazon or Wal-Mart can’t prevent others from selling something, but if they don’t carry it, it becomes hard to obtain because of the limited market remaining. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/105 "2010-11-14T04:05:52Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Some people define censorship as a government action only. Only a government can prevent something from being sold everywhere, thru laws or regulation. A private organization has control of only its own actions and cannot “censor” the actions of others – it can try to influence it, but it doesn’t have absolute control. > > Others define censorship more broadly as anyone who prevents a product from being sold by their own non-governmental group. > > In between these two defs we have defacto censorship, where a large outfit like Amazon or Wal-Mart can’t prevent others from selling something, but if they don’t carry it, it becomes hard to obtain because of the limited market remaining. If you’d only read my next post. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/106 "2010-11-14T04:35:07Z")
Depends on how you define “censorship”, and whether you consider ALL censorship automatically bad. We all practice censorship in one form or another. (In this case, as the OP pointed out, Amazon is censoring itself) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/107 "2010-11-14T04:41:16Z")
Only because it’s being bullied into it by self-appointed nannies. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/108 "2010-11-14T04:51:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Only because it’s being bullied into it by self-appointed nannies. If by “bullied” you mean they decided it would affect their bottom line, well, yeah. Like I said, I wouldn’t want to be the one making that decision. Why don’t you go and read the book, **Diogenes**? Seriously, I’m not being snarky, or anything. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/109 "2010-11-14T05:01:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why would I feel any less charitably about it than a manual dedicted to teaching people how to molest my children? > > Lot’s of books describe how to commit crimes. There are books that tell you how to grow weed, make pipe bombs and cheat on your taxes too. It’s not my job to stop anyone from buying or selling them. when you start your own company you are free to sell books on how to molest your family. You are not, however, obligated to sell the books. For you to actually call someone objecting to this a nanny is retarded. There is no argument you can make regarding freedom of speech that doesn’t include the freedom to object to the promotion of child molestation. There is also no argument you can make that a business is obligated to sell anything they don’t want to sell. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/110 "2010-11-14T05:11:44Z")
He’s not saying that they shouldn’t have the right to sell whatever they please and he’s not saying that people shouldn’t have the right to protest whatever they please. He’s saying that people who go out of their way to attempt to dictate what other people should or should not read are douchebags and I’m inclined to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/111 "2010-11-14T05:26:40Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > He’s not saying that they shouldn’t have the right to sell whatever they please and he’s not saying that people shouldn’t have the right to protest whatever they please. He’s saying that people who go out of their way to attempt to dictate what other people should or should not read are douchebags and I’m inclined to agree. So tell me, how should one protest this book, or Amazon’s selling it? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/112 "2010-11-14T05:54:48Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So tell me, how should one protest this book, or Amazon’s selling it? 1 - Consult Diogenes the Cynic on whether or not you’re going out of your way to tell other people what to sell. 2 - ??? 3 - profit ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/113 "2010-11-14T05:57:34Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > If by “bullied” you mean they decided it would affect their bottom line, well, yeah. Like I said, I wouldn’t want to be the one making that decision. > > Why don’t you go and read the book, **Diogenes**? Seriously, I’m not being snarky, or anything. Why would I want to read the book? I have no interest in it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/114 "2010-11-14T06:02:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > when you start your own company you are free to sell books on how to molest your family. You are not, however, obligated to sell the books. This continues to be an irrelevant point in this thread since nobody has said anybody is obligated to do anything. > [@](#): > > For you to actually call someone objecting to this a nanny is retarded. There is no argument you can make regarding freedom of speech that doesn’t include the freedom to object to the promotion of child molestation. No one said they don’t have that freedom. I’m just saying they’re douchebags. > [@](#): > > There is also no argument you can make that a business is obligated to sell anything they don’t want to sell. No such position has been taken by anybody in this thread. I am not making any argument about rights or obligations. I am saying that people who go out of their way to involve themselves in what kind of books other people are buying and selling are douchebags – not criminals, just dickholes. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/115 "2010-11-14T06:06:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So tell me, how should one protest this book, or Amazon’s selling it? Protest it any way you want. I’m saying that protesting it at all is obnoxious. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/116 "2010-11-14T06:19:58Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Protest it any way you want. I’m saying that protesting it at all is obnoxious. You also said it hinders free commerce and trade. Did I completely misunderstand you or have you changed your position since then? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/117 "2010-11-14T06:32:23Z")
No, it does hinder free commerce and trade, albeit in a legal way. Of course it does. All boycotts do. That’s the point. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/118 "2010-11-14T06:52:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This continues to be an irrelevant point in this thread since nobody has said anybody is obligated to do anything. > > No one said they don’t have that freedom. I’m just saying they’re douchebags. > > No such position has been taken by anybody in this thread. I am not making any argument about rights or obligations. I am saying that people who go out of their way to involve themselves in what kind of books other people are buying and selling are douchebags – not criminals, just dickholes. The only thing needed for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing. The book is immoral. Objecting to it’s sale should be as normal as breathing. How you don’t understand this is mind boggling. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/119 "2010-11-14T06:54:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Was anyone else immediately reminded of a certain former poster? I’m sure he snapped that right up!) > > Actually, but for the typo, that email looks like something he may have written. I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if the author was our boy. Did he ever say that he lived in Colorado? Oh boy…A few years ago I used to lurk at a forum for girllovers and boylovers (had a abnormal psych/ car crash interest in it) , and EVERYONE there was like " our boy" (oh it doesnt hurt them, they can consent) ---
**Author:** ![Gestalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90ced4/32.png) [@Gestalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gestalt)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2010, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388/120 "2010-11-14T07:29:19Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So tell me, how should one protest this book, or Amazon’s selling it? The point is that you shouldn’t care about Amazon selling this book, and you shouldn’t want to protest the sale. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pedophile-s-guide-to-love-and-pleasure-and-amazon/560388.md?page=7)