Perhaps you’d like to respond to my earlier post in which I explained exactly why I believe that allowing instructions on breaking the law and even more odious examples of speech to be disseminated is of value and why the value they provide to society should, at the very least, be weighed carefully against the harm their publication might entail.
I mean, if those are the issue you want to see discussed.
Actually, it is. The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently ruled that encouraging someone to commit a crime (which this book clearly does) is NOT protected speech.
It’s not fiction, like Hogg or Lolita. It’s not historical, like books describing the sexual practices of men & children in certain ancient cultures before society learned better. It is worse than hate speech – it enables child-fuckers who read this garbage by telling them IT’S OKAY TO RAPE CHILDREN. (Seriously, Dio…if some sick pedo raped your daughter after reading this book, would you still claim it should be protected speech?)
Frankly, I’m disgusted by the fact that such pro-pedophilia trash was ever sold by Amazon, while the excellent documentary Bumfights remains banned.
(tl;dr the rest of this thread)
How does one debate with people who don’t think promoting pedophilia or making bombs is immoral? When a child you know gets raped is it appropriate to remind you that there were people who bothered to object to the promotion of the idea and you went out of your way to defend it’s distribution?
It’s immoral to promote this material. It’s irresponsible to patronize businesses that profit from it.
A great debate indeed. :golf clap:
Once again, it is not Amazon which is being accused of douchebaggery, so the comparison to the SDMB is off point. The analogy would be if users were complaining and harassing a message board to stop allowing posts on topics they don’t like.
The “Brandenburg Test” as it’s called, requires the elements of intent, imminence and likelihood of a crime for the speech to be unlawful , not just an abstract, general advocacy, even of violent acts. There are many, many books which tell people how to do illegal things. You are simply mistaken that they are not protected free speech.
This book is not going to create any pedophiles, and to perfectly pedantic, it actually tells pedophiles NOT to fuck children.
Yes. I would blame the rapist.
Agreed, which is why I said “Sure, this is not a one-to-one analogy”
And then I added my not-related-to-douchebaggery question “if in your ideal world Amazon should allow books with instructions on how to break the law, shouldn’t the SDMB allow posts with instructions on how to break the law?”
So, would you prefer if the SDMB allowed posts on how to seduce 5 year olds, how to make pipe bombs, how to hack into your neighbors’ computer, etc?
(Not that you would like to read these threads per se, but it seems like you would prefer that people be free to post them, just like you wouldn’t likely read such books on Amazon, but you would prefer that people be free to sell those books)
If one prefers that the SDMB retain its current policy of not allowing such posts, does that make them a douchebag?
I don’t care what either does. They can both do whatever they want. What I’m saying is I’m not going to start campaigns trying to stop either of them hosting or selling content I don’t like.
Fair enough. But the real question is: SHOULD it be protected speech? We’re talking about fucking children here.
True, but the book does encourage pedophiles to accept their condition as something normal, instead of the deviants they are. I’ll take on faith your word that the book doesn’t give a step-by-step on how to rape a child, but that’s not necessary. The mere fact that the author is justifying his sickness as something “normal” is downright dangerous; all it takes is for one baby rapist to gain enough self-confidence to act on his twisted fantasies, whether or not the book actually encourages him to do so. It has happened before.
So say you now…
Agreed on the first part, but not the second. Hate to say it, but if I were to boycott every company that pollutes the environment, exploits third-world children, or makes campaign contributions to the GOP, I’d end up in a cabin somewhere growing my own crops and knitting my own clothes.
Besides, I’ve gone the vigilante route before, even with Amazon. A few years ago, I was tangentially involved in a campaign to prevent Amazon from selling certain “naturist” films by a company called Baikal Films (google at your own risk) which, in reality, were cheap VHS tapes of kids who would strip naked and wrestle in oil baths. (I swear I’m not making that up – technically it’s legal, and perhaps there’s some artistic value I’m missing, but c’mon…it’s obvious who the target audience was.)
Initially, Amazon did cave in, but a few months later they were selling those tapes again. So, why bother? You can’t fight capitalism, dammit. :mad:
Really? Are you serious?
Really?
I just looked and didn’t see anything on making pipe bombs, though I did find Forbidden Lego: Build the Models Your Parents Warned You Against!
Amazon declined to carry the Loompanics book list.
There is an idea here that Amazon is some sort of universal information center, where any and every book can and should be found. Amazon has never been that.
That page also has links to other instructional books for homemade bombs.
Most people who read that book aren’t going to build a bomb and set it off in a crowded area. There’s a handful of crazies like that, but they are extremely rare.
Pedophiles, on the other hand, are far more common. Nobody knows the exact percentage, but it’s estimated to be between 3 and 9%. Not all of them molest children, of course, but that’s mostly because they’re afraid of getting caught, or they haven’t been able to arrange a situation where they could molest a child and get away with it.
Now, if they read a book which (1) tells them their sickness is actually normal, and (2) gives advice on how to fuck a child AND prevent the child from talking (presumably by brainwashing the child into believing that sex w/adults is healthy and normal; which IS how most child molesters operate, btw) – we have a problem. BIG problem.
Also, somebody could use the Anarchist’s Cookbook to build a bomb and blow it up in a safe, secure area. Nobody gets hurt, no property gets damaged. You can’t do that with molesting children…at least, I can’t think of any way to rape a child w/o damaging them for life. Just can’t think of one.
Those don’t sound like very convincing distinctions to me. No book is going to turn anybody into a child molester, and I think people are responsible for their own actions.
This book doesn’t create child molesters, but it certainly seems like it enables them. Sure people are responsible for their own actions but when there’s someone else saying, “go ahead … it’s ok,” they share some responsibility.
And apparently if you don’t take action to quash those people, you are also responsible. I hereby hold every one of you personally accountable for global warming if you do not immediately take action against every misinformation campaign and pseudoscientific treatise now being published that encourage people to do nothing. I hold you personally accountable for every child who becomes ill because you did not boycott bookstores and other media outlets propagating myths about the real risks and benefits of immunizations. Obviously the people can not be trusted with information, and it is the duty of every citizen to prevent them from having access to bad ideas and bad information.
Does the Bible share some responsibility if someone kills a witch, or if parents kill their own kids for swearing at them?
I’ve been told that The Anarchist Cookbook specifically is a pretty poor resource for real bomb-making.
But I stand corrected on the point.
To answer Diogenestically: Yes it does.