# The Penatagon Papers vs Wikileaks

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penatagon-papers-vs-wikileaks/804139>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [December 10, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penatagon-papers-vs-wikileaks/804139 "2017-12-10T20:21:55Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penatagon-papers-vs-wikileaks/804139/1 "2017-12-10T20:21:55Z")

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Rather than bumping [this 7 yo thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=587276) (or others like it) I thought I’d start a new one.

because of the upcoming movie [The Post](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Post_(film)) which will retell the story of the pentagon papers, the comparisons fo the PP and wikileaks are on my mind.

I have Long held the belief that the PP and wikileaks (and for that matter Snowden and the rest) are all of the same ilk and that they are a good thing.

Many of the posters back in 2010, were making the point that Elsberg and Assange were not the same because the PP actually exposed govt malfeasance whereas wikileaks was just a document dump - no heroics involved. Well seven years later (and more document dumps) do we still think that?

[This article](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-wikileaks-enlightened-us-in-2010/) from the end of 2010 lists some things from that original dump that did indeed turn out to be of significance ie:

> [@](#):
>
> The U.S. Army considered WikiLeaks a national security threat as early as 2008, according to documents obtained and posted by WikiLeaks in March, 2010.
> 
> - Then-Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and his top commanders repeatedly, knowingly lied to the American public about rising sectarian violence in Iraq beginning in 2006, according to the cross-referencing of WikiLeaks’ leaked Iraq war documents and former Washington Post Baghdad Bureau Chief Ellen Knickmeyer’s recollections.
> 
> - The Secretary of State’s office encouraged U.S. diplomats at the United Nations to spy on their counterparts, including collecting data about the U.N. secretary general, his team and foreign diplomats, including credit card account numbers, according to documents from WikiLeaks U.S. diplomatic cable release. Later cables revealthe CIA draws up an annual “wish-list” for the State Department, which one year included the instructions to spy on the U.N.
> 
> - The Obama administration worked with Republicans during his first few months in office to protect Bush administration officials facing a criminal investigation overseas for their involvement in establishing policies that some considered torture. A “confidential” April 17, 2009, cable sent from the US embassy in Madrid obtained by WikiLeaks details how the Obama administration, working with Republicans, leaned on Spain to derail this potential prosecution.

as just a couple of examples. . .

So I would really like to take Elsberg and Assange out of the debate and ask:

Are the Wikileaks (et al) releases the heirs of The Pentagon Papers?  
are they equally heroic? (assuming the PP release was heroic)  
Is the public’s right to know what their govt is up to enough justification for leaking classified (or even non classified) materials?

I’ll start and say that I believe these are all good things; that our (any) govt can too easily slip into abuse or even just convince themselves that anything they do is for "the good of the governed, without the constant specter of being exposed to the light of day hanging over their heads.

mc