The pendulum has swung too far; is sexism against men socially acceptable now?

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=Ravenman]
<snip>I just have to repeat my earlier question in an different way: is anyone’s real-life view of men actually being colored by this silly little dramatic device? I mean, are women now beating out men at getting top jobs in business because laundry detergent commercials are making HR managers think that men, as a whole, are incompetent boobs who can’t be trusted, while women can do anything?

I can hardly see something as being harmful if nobody actually believes it. I just don’t think people take the jokes or commercials seriously, no more than people don’t try to hold conversations with Great Danes because they watched too much Scooby Doo as a kid; nor are pie-throwing scenes in old movies a glamorization of violence, principally because there’s not a lot of people going around throwing pies outside of movies.
[/QUOTE]

Speaking from my own personal experience, I had a long discussion with my husband years ago about men’s feelings. I’m not a stupid person, or poorly-informed, but I had no idea that men have all the feelings that women have, just as vividly and strongly. I have been raised in a culture where women are expected to be all about the emotions, and men are expected to be emotionless (except for anger), I don’t have brothers, and somehow made the mistaken leap from men aren’t allowed to show emotion to men don’t have emotions. I can easily see how young girls and boys could take away some very inaccurate ideas about men and women from the way they see them portrayed in media and popular jokes.

I can also see the harm from my very own husband. He is not incompetent or stupid or a guy who tries to get out of things by acting dumb, and he finds these stereotypes of men quite insulting. As a woman, I don’t like the stereotypes of super-competent women and emasculating bitches. Sure, there are always women who act like both of these stereotypes, but I don’t like the idea of people believing that these stereotypes are more accurate or pervasive than they are.

42

[QUOTE=Shagnasty]
Nobody in the history of this board has been able to show any evidence that women make less than men for “the same job”.
[/QUOTE]

You refusing to believe something is not the same as there not being evidence shown for something.

43

[QUOTE=Marley23]

Because it makes them money - and, in my opinion, because they don’t feel harmed or affected by the stereotypes.

There’s some evidence that it is, seeing as how dumb husbands have been a staple of sitcoms for as long as they’ve existed and a staple of humor for centuries.

[/QUOTE]

Well, you’ll notice that the “stupid” husbands are almost always working class men, i.e. the ones who clearly weren’t clever enough to obtain a “good” job, like writing for television or running a network :wink:

And I’ll jump back a few posts:

For comparison: every wife of a professional athlete who I’ve seen has been pretty darned good-looking, regardless of what her athlete husband looks like. I would not be surprised to learn that the majority of the “fat, stupid husband[s]” in sitcoms were star jocks in high school. The first example that comes to mind is Al Bundy (he comes to mind because he never shut up about the time he scored four touchdowns in one game).

Starting with that assumption, it’s not difficult to paint the scenario: Smart, pretty high school girl attaches herself to the star jock, knowing he has a full-ride college scholarship waiting for him, and once he’s playing college football, it’s just a short jump to the NFL. So, get married after high school, go to college, go to NFL, be rich and happy. Alas, fate has intervened, and the first baby came much earlier than intended, and star jock has to drop out of college and get a job. Years pass, and now hubby is just a working stiff without a college degree. His eating habits haven’t changed, but his exercise routine has fallen by the wayside now that he’s no longer playing sports.

Bingo: Fat, uneducated husband, and smart, pretty, bitter wife who thought she had a life of luxury ahead of her, a life she would have had if only he hadn’t knocked her up. What to do? Make sure he knows, every day, how stupid he is.

44

There is something a little more subtle happening behind the stereotypes we have been discussing (Ads/Sitcoms).

Its not so much of a stereotype as it is a classic archetype. Even though we are civilized, politically aware people, who live to advance enlightenment, , at some deep level, we instinctively understand the roles being played out when Jackie Gleason threatens physcial Violence to his wife (To the MOON, Alice! To the MOON!!!), or when an exasperated housewife demonstrates in child directed panto9mime “How to change a toilet roll”.

the writers of these senarios have a talent for utilizing these archetypes, and even useing them to reinforce our feelings of “enlightenment” and “higher purpose”>

That’s why they are so very effective in both getting laughs, (in sit coms) and, especially in the case of advertising, making us remember them.

Can’t remeber the name of the brand of toilet paper mentioned in the ad? Niether can I, but next time the store is out of your prefered brand, or there is a sale on the advertised brand, the “tickling of your archetypes” will play through and influence your choice. (Or so the theory goes)

Just some thoughts

FML

45

Yesterday I was sitting at a graduation party open house. My sister was nearby with her five year old boy on her lap, along with various relatives and a few folks we didn’t know but just happened to be sharing a table with.

The strangers were a nice older couple that worked with the parent of the graduate, I think, and the wife was being nice and asking the five year old nephew things like what his name was and how old he was. When he answered he was five, she asked if he was excited about entering kindergarten soon. Sis answered that he’s homeschooled, and has already completed the requirements for both pre-school and kindergarten so he’s getting ready for first grade a bit early.

Nice old lady : Wow, you must be a very smart young man, that’s impressive!

Sis : Well, he is male, but we’re hopeful anyway.

Everyone laughed, as intended, but jokes like that prove to me just how acceptable ragging on boys/men really is. I’ve spent years trying to get my girlfriends and relatives to stop making all the throw-away comments about how idiotic men are, since we’re raising our own generation of men it hardly seems right. I’m generally the one dissenting voice in my circle, everyone else is perfectly content with bashing the entire gender without a second thought.

So, yes, in my opinion sexism against men has become totally acceptable.

46

[QUOTE=Queen Tonya]
<snip>Nice old lady : Wow, you must be a very smart young man, that’s impressive!

Sis : Well, he is male, but we’re hopeful anyway.
<snip>
[/QUOTE]

That’s not a joke, that’s just plain mean. How is a young boy going to internalize hearing that regularly? I don’t think I would have laughed either, because this is one of my peeves, and that just isn’t funny.

Full Metal Lotus, which archetypes are we seeing in the Idiot Man-child and the Emasculating Bitch/Super-competent Woman?

47

[QUOTE=I Love Me, Vol. I]
Actually, I wouldn’t mind seeing a cite for this. I’ve seen many ads with D-cup bikini girls, but I don’t remember any of the women being witless or unintelligent in any way. Generally, their intelligence is not alluded to at all. They are just there to be sexy.
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Like her?

48

[QUOTE=featherlou]
That’s not a joke, that’s just plain mean. How is a young boy going to internalize hearing that regularly? I don’t think I would have laughed either, because this is one of my peeves, and that just isn’t funny.
[/QUOTE]

It may well be mean, but the fact that the “joke” was delivered is to some extent (this situation isn’t a terribly extreme outlier) reflective of the social fabric. Of course, it also demonstrates the particular burden this sexism places on boys, as they are not only powerless (compared to men, who are better equipped to counter-quip) but also surrounded by female authority figures in school. Sexism towards men may be somewhat unfortunate, but it’s they boys who bear most of the burden.

49

I still think all this talk about society holding a sexist attitude against men being dumb is simply nonsense, but that comment about the kindergarten aged kid is unbelievably mean. It is simply insulting to talk about one’s family members are being stupid. But then again, I’d probably be equally offended if the sister had said, for examaple, how she was hoping the kid would be able to make friends in school despite his being so ugly.

50

The portrayal of men that you generally refer to as foolish or witless is more against male stubbornness than stupidity. It portrays men as being so sure of themselves that they will stumble very much to do something themselves rather than seek advice or, to a lesser degree, help. While the outcome is that the men come off looking foolish, it is not saying they are stupid in general - it’s saying that they’re stupidly stubborn.

But most men do not object to this portrayal, because, despite the comeuppance that the sitcom characters get, men still pride themselves on their self-reliance.

51

Look,

Almost all tv sitcoms are based upon I Love Lucy or The Honeymooners.

Can you imagine a show where Rickie was married to Alice? It would be boring!

And if Lucy were married to Ralph Cramden, they would die in the first episode.
A lot of people seemed to be bugged by According to Jim because the husband is dumb and fat and she is such a hottie and they complain that this is the male fantasy.

Let me tell you, as a guy, it isn’t my fantasy to be a big dumb lout. It isn’t a fantasy. It’s a nightmare. We are just big dumb louts, compared to our cultured and sensitive wives we don’t deserve. This is the male view of himself, at least the writers view of themselves. They also view all women as being beautiful, intelligent, and much more loving than men ever could be.
But you know, if the boat is sinking, it’s still women and children first. That tells you where men rank in society.

52

The final word in the thread title is the one that threw me. “Now?” It’s been “socially acceptable” for a long time. Everyone in vaudeville knew that it was okay for the woman to insult the man onstage, but if the man picked on the woman they’d be jeered.

[QUOTE=ignoramus]
I can’t see a man caring less, many of us would happily eat pizza every meal for the rest of our lives… Isn’t the real issue that a bloke deigning to make a meal would be ‘giving the wife a break’?
[/QUOTE]
It’s a stereotype, ignoramus. The fact that it applies to you doesn’t make it any less a stereotype. Granted, it probably applies to most of the college-age guys I know, but most of my male friends would grow tired of pizza in a couple of days, and most of us are perfectly capable of cooking a tasty meal.

53

[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
It’s a stereotype, ignoramus. The fact that it applies to you doesn’t make it any less a stereotype. Granted, it probably applies to most of the college-age guys I know, but most of my male friends would grow tired of pizza in a couple of days, and most of us are perfectly capable of cooking a tasty meal.
[/QUOTE]

Granted, it’s a stereotyped rooted in the era when almost everybody got married young, right out of high school. Husbands went from Mom cooking to Wife cooking, and never needed to learn to do it themselves. However, this has become mostly obsolete these days when more people are getting married later in life. Men go from Mom cooking to doing it themselves for a few years before they get married. Same with laundry, washing the dishes, and changing the toilet paper roll.

54

[QUOTE=Phase42]
Granted, it’s a stereotyped rooted in the era when almost everybody got married young, right out of high school. Husbands went from Mom cooking to Wife cooking, and never needed to learn to do it themselves. However, this has become mostly obsolete these days when more people are getting married later in life. Men go from Mom cooking to doing it themselves for a few years before they get married. Same with laundry, washing the dishes, and changing the toilet paper roll.
[/QUOTE]

Heh.

Laundry: Mrs M does this. And then leaves piles of clean laundry on every unoccupied horizontal surface in the house. Or in the ironing basket for half a year.

Washing the dishes: We have a dishwasher.

Changing TP: Mrs M can remove a roll from the packaging, but the complex procedure required to remove the cardboard tube from the holder and replace it with the new roll defeats her 'prox ninety-seven times out of a hundred.