# The Pennsylvania Shakedown continues to shake out. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 29, 2005, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717 "2005-07-29T10:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/1 "2005-07-29T10:38:50Z")
[Pennsylvania Senate Minority leader H. William DeWeese removes all Democrats who voted against the payraise from chairmanships.](http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_358238.html) He has not commented as yet on this amazing chain of events, but his chief of staff has. > [@](#): > > “Bill didn’t walk in with a machete and cut people’s heads off,” Manzo said. “No one is losing staff, no one is losing mailings.” > > Still, Manzo acknowledged the move was intended to reward lawmakers who voted for the July 7 pay raise. > > DeWeese does not believe lawmakers who passed the pay raise should earn less than opponents of the legislation, Manzo said. Lawmakers who voted for the pay raise were promoted to the vice and sub-committee chairmanships – and some of them will get $85,103 salaries as a result. This follows the comments of the Lieutenant Governor, Catherine Baker Knoll, at a military funeral in which she expressed her unwelcome opinion about the war, the soon to be forcible compliance with Act 72, the gambling for schools bill, and the illegal pay raise that precipitated this current legislative controversy, now being challenged in court. Pennsylvania is a mess, folks. If I were you I’d be very glad I was living elsewhere. It’s starting to resemble the People’s Republic of Kalifornia in sheer political lunacy. Maybe this next election we’ll get it right and send Rendell packing, because thus far he has done nothing right, and his party is following right in his footsteps. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/2 "2005-07-29T10:55:04Z")
So you have problems with your state government? Why do you have to take an asinine swipe at my state’s government and populace? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/3 "2005-07-29T11:08:24Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Pennsylvania is a mess, folks. If I were you I’d be very glad I was living elsewhere. It’s starting to resemble the People’s Republic of Kalifornia in sheer political lunacy. Maybe this next election we’ll get it right and send Rendell packing, because thus far he has done nothing right, and his party is following right in his footsteps. To be absolutely fair, Pennsylvania Republicans as a whole aren’t a whole lot better. I grew up in Pennsylvania, and the only things that caused me to become a Republican were the corrupt and visionless Pennsylvania Democratic Party and the inspired leadership of Ronald Reagan at the national level. My political conservatism grew from this humble beginning. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/4 "2005-07-29T11:35:15Z")
Pennsylvania is integral to Democratic Party; why do they let those idiots screw it up? Republicans seem to be better at keeping their peeps on the line. Why can’t they just take pay raises like other State employees? If those folks don’t get them, they shouldn’t. If State employees get 2%, then they should get 2% or whatever. Why they would spend precious political capital on that is just simply flabbergasting to me. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/5 "2005-07-29T11:41:59Z")
There is a grassroots movement to vote out any legislator who voted for the pay increase. I, for one, plan to vote against my rep; he’s said that he plans to award the money in grants to causes in his district, but it’s only something like $1200, which is too small an amount to really spread around in any meaningful way. FTR, my rep is a Republican who usually has a pretty good Democrat running against him. The local parties need to get good Democrats in place to run. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/6 "2005-07-29T11:44:20Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > [Pennsylvania Senate Minority leader H. William DeWeese removes all Democrats who voted against the payraise from chairmanships.](http://pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/trib/regional/s_358238.html) > > He has not commented as yet on this amazing chain of events, but his chief of staff has. I heard about this this morning, and I was outraged. It is absolutely ridiculous, and I hope he recieves whatever political and personal karma he is due. > [@](#): > > This follows the comments of the Lieutenant Governor, Catherine Baker Knoll, at a military funeral in which she expressed her unwelcome opinion about the war, This is completely unrelated. Why the hell would you link these things, or use this as evidence in any way of the Democrats being in a mess? That incident seemed to me to be the case of one person at the funeral taking the opportunity to throw a non-event into the conservative outrage hopper. > [@](#): > > […]and the illegal pay raise that precipitated this current legislative controversy, now being challenged in court. Wait - aren’t the Democrats the minority party? How are you presenting this as evidence that the PA Democrats are a mess? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![HelenTroy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helentroy/32/86_2.png) [@HelenTroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenTroy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/7 "2005-07-29T11:49:49Z")
> [@An Arky](#): > > Why can’t they just take pay raises like other State employees? If those folks don’t get them, they shouldn’t. If State employees get 2%, then they should get 2% or whatever. I’m a government employee and couldn’t agree more. I went without a pay raise last year and I was OK with that and I could even handle our benefits becoming more expensive, but this huge pay hike is a little more than I can stomach. I work for the people just as much as they do and would never dream about soaking taxpayers like this. I feel I am well compensated for the job I do and can’t imagine over $100,000 (once you add in all the cushy perks) is not considered a high paying job in PA. I also believe, IMHO, the previous salary was plenty high enough to attract good people. It is the corrupt political system which drives people away, not the idea that the salary is crummy. What a load of BS. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/8 "2005-07-29T14:46:24Z")
> [@](#): > > So you have problems with your state government? Why do you have to take an asinine swipe at my state’s government and populace? Because California is a target as big as all outdoors. They have very serious budget problems and nobody seems willing to do what is necessary to resolve them. They are in big trouble, and Pennsylvania seems to want to dive down into the same hole. > [@](#): > > This is completely unrelated. Why the hell would you link these things, or use this as evidence in any way of the Democrats being in a mess? That incident seemed to me to be the case of one person at the funeral taking the opportunity to throw a non-event into the conservative outrage hopper. it’s not the “conservative image hopper”, it’s the Democrat image hopper. Whether these events are unrelated or not, everything taken as a whole will result in the Democrats having a very serious image problem at the polls next election. The Republicans are as much to blame for the pay raise as anybody else, but the state Republican caucus isn’t going out of their way to punish their members for voting against the pay raise. The Democrats are being seen as vengeful, petty, and outright mean. > [@](#): > > Wait - aren’t the Democrats the minority party? How are you presenting this as evidence that the PA Democrats are a mess? Again, it’s just one more thing. The whole being the sum of its parts, right now the Democrats are hurting. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/9 "2005-07-29T16:37:23Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So you have problems with your state government? Why do you have to take an asinine swipe at my state’s government and populace? Because our governor is the Terminator? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/10 "2005-07-29T16:52:08Z")
But the capitol building is kinda pretty. (I used to live in Harrisburg. Used to.) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/11 "2005-07-29T17:26:23Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > …the inspired leadership of Ronald Reagan at the national level. My political conservatism grew from this humble beginning. Could you be more specific? Was it the brilliant geopolitical coup of inserting American troops into Lebanon? The bold military genius of the Grenada incursion? His stunning vision of the absolute supremacy of the Executive branch, \*a la \* Iran-Contra? How did benignly ignorant Uncle Doofus lead you anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/12 "2005-07-29T17:28:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because our governor is the Terminator? Also, a lot of you folks are hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Orbifold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/779978/32.png) [@Orbifold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orbifold)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/13 "2005-07-29T18:41:18Z")
The link in the OP doesn’t work for me, so I’ve been perusing Google News. I think I can conclude that either this guy DeWeese is a Republican mole, or else somewhere the Republican party of Pennsylvania is laughing its collective ass off at their own luck. It’s amazing how little heat the _majority party_ in the state House of Representatives is taking over this. BTW, does anyone know if the voting records of the Pennsylvania General Assembly are online anywhere? The General Assembly’s home page is unhelpful. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/14 "2005-07-29T19:20:55Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So you have problems with your state government? Why do you have to take an asinine swipe at my state’s government and populace? Jealousy. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/15 "2005-07-29T19:30:13Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So you have problems with your state government? Why do you have to take an asinine swipe at my state’s government and populace? If we can no longer swipe at California, the terrorists have already won. ---
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/16 "2005-07-29T19:36:42Z")
I’m simply shocked that you paid your legislators 70 thousand a year before the pay increase - how on earth could they imagine that they need another 16% on top of that. Is the cost of living in Penn that much higher? ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/17 "2005-07-29T19:51:41Z")
> [@Orbifold](#): > > The link in the OP doesn’t work for me, so I’ve been perusing Google News. I think I can conclude that either this guy DeWeese is a Republican mole, or else somewhere the Republican party of Pennsylvania is laughing its collective ass off at their own luck. It’s amazing how little heat the _majority party_ in the state House of Representatives is taking over this. That is hardly the case. The entire legislayture is taking a beating over this (and rightfully so), it’s just that the Republicans didn’t turn on their own. > [@](#): > > BTW, does anyone know if the voting records of the Pennsylvania General Assembly are online anywhere? The General Assembly’s home page is unhelpful. I dunno about general records, but one of our homegrown radio talk show hosts, a guy named Bob Durgin, has the roster of who voted for and against the pay raise on his webpage. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/18 "2005-07-29T19:57:18Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Jealousy. Yeah, that’s it. :rolleyes: No, it’s more like I’m not too keen on socialism. I also like to live in a place that doesn’t have overinflated real estate costs, high taxes, or draconian gun control among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2005, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/19 "2005-07-29T23:39:22Z")
Ah, so you’re now admitting that you don’t have a clue as to what California’s like and that’s why you took a swipe at it. Thanks for clearing that up. FWIW: The worst year I had at school was actually in Pennsylvania. Well, there was one redeeming factor: Miss Filetti, the math teacher. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2005, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717/20 "2005-07-30T00:51:10Z")
FWIW, H. William DeWeese (D) is the Minority Leader and is from the 50th legislative district including Fayette County. Like **Airman Doors** I don’t give a rat’s ass if they’re Dem, Repub, or Goat Smoker party. While I was in Philly the last few days, I caught frequent updates via NPR and WHYY-FM, and am happy to report that the constituency isn’t happy about all of the goings on. Two Republican reps have signed on to back a bill introduced by another Republican rep to block the drawing of increases by sitting legislators in the form of “unvouchered expenses” which simply uses a loophole to take the raise right away. [Here’s an article](http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05198/539293.stm) which explores a number of the bennies above and beyond what you might have already heard. Of course, there’s no listing to be found on a PA sponsored website to list how they all voted. That would be too damned simple. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pennsylvania-shakedown-continues-to-shake-out/314717.md?page=2)