# The Penny Debate - Canuck Edition **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 29, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208 "2012-03-29T22:20:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/1 "2012-03-29T22:20:20Z")
The current news (or rather, currency news šŸ˜‰ ) is that Canada is to phase out the penny: > **[The penny's days are numbered | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/the-penny-s-days-are-numbered-1.1174546)** > > The federal budget is guaranteed to leave Canadians penniless ā€” literally ā€” as the lowly coins are being phased out of existence. Hereā€™s the debate: is this a good move? Iā€™m inclined to think it is, as the penny coin is effectively useless due to inflation. But Iā€™m interested in hearing what you all think. Getting rid of the penny - good idea or bad? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/2 "2012-03-29T23:21:33Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Hereā€™s the debate: is this a good move? Yes, of course itā€™s a good idea. In the US, the last low denomination to be phased out was the half-penny, in 1857. In todayā€™s money, thatā€™s worth about [13 cents](http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php). If people in 1857 (a time when even inflation-adjusted incomes were far lower) could deal with a minimum currency unit equivalent to a quarter, then we can deal with the same today. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/3 "2012-03-30T00:02:21Z")
Itā€™s an overdue move, and Iā€™d throw the nickel in if I had my way. Iā€™d listen to arguments on the dime, too. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/4 "2012-03-30T00:26:35Z")
We got rid of 1 and 2 cent coins in 1990 (as did New Zealand), and itā€™s caused no problem whatsoever. One thing I didnā€™t know until just now is that they were melted down to make the Bronze medals for the Sydney 2000 Olympics. Now that is brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_the\_Immortal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Max\_the\_Immortal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_the_Immortal)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/5 "2012-03-30T01:13:19Z")
I thought that the no-penny system I encountered in New Zealand worked well. I agree that itā€™s overdue here. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/6 "2012-03-30T01:20:13Z")
Great move. Little old ladies will be protesting in Nathan Phillips Square though. ---
**Author:** ![sisu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@sisu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sisu)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/7 "2012-03-30T01:26:05Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#): > > I thought that the no-penny system I encountered in New Zealand worked well. I agree that itā€™s overdue here. in aus we got rid of 1 &2c coins. all good nothing to see here ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/8 "2012-03-30T01:33:56Z")
It is a terrific and long, long overdue move. The _only_ purpose of the penny is/was to help make change; by itself, it has/had _no_ purchasing power. But it sure does/did have liabilities: - slowing down transactions - complicating transactions (and frustrating people like me who loathed getting a handful of coins because of a lack of the penny required to reduce the purchase price to a round number) - costing more to mint than its face value - and, frankly, being a literal pain in the ass when the coins in your back pocket (many of them pennies since, not able to purchase anything, they accumulate) press on your nates Kudos to the Conservatives for using the only slightly disingenuous ā€˜weā€™ll save 11 millions dollarsā€™ excuse to finally get rid of the inane penny (i.e. as ridiculous as it was to have kept the penny for so long, it ultimately took the guise of a belt-tightening budget to do the deed). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/9 "2012-03-30T01:42:06Z")
Will stores be allowed to continue to post prices in penny increments? Because itā€™s deceptive to advertise a price that everyone must pay more than. Like the downs syndrome children who post gas station prices in mills. Where the fuck do you get a mill coin? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/10 "2012-03-30T01:42:27Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > We got rid of 1 and 2 cent coins in 1990 (as did New Zealand), and itā€™s caused no problem whatsoever. New Zealand also got rid of its 5 cent coin a few years ago, and downsized all of its original decimal coins. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/11 "2012-03-30T01:47:43Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Will stores be allowed to continue to post prices in penny increments? Because itā€™s deceptive to advertise a price that everyone must pay more than. Not everybody; only people who pay cash. And if they use the rounding method used in many other countries, only if the total cost at the very end ends in a 3, 4, 8, or 9, with cash customers paying less (albeit in a meaningless amount) if it ends in a 1, 2, 6, or 7. (And IIRC, sales taxes in Canada are added to the price, so it wouldnā€™t really matter if stores posted prices in five cent increments.) ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/12 "2012-03-30T01:54:03Z")
Iā€™m opposed, but only insofar as they shouldā€™ve ditched the nickel too. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/13 "2012-03-30T02:10:12Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Not everybody; only people who pay cash. And if they use the rounding method used in many other countries, only if the total cost at the very end ends in a 3, 4, 8, or 9, with cash customers paying less (albeit in a meaningless amount) if it ends in a 1, 2, 6, or 7. (And IIRC, sales taxes in Canada are added to the price, so it wouldnā€™t really matter if stores posted prices in five cent increments.) Now thatā€™s a fair system. I wish the whole mill thing worked like that down here. Itā€™s such a petty small thing but it chars my bacon good. Itā€™s always rounded in the gas stationā€™s favor. Effectively they get to advertize a lower price than theyā€™re charging. Sure itā€™s not as bad as war and poverty, but sod me if it isnā€™t close. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/14 "2012-03-30T02:22:17Z")
Iā€™m for it. Hereā€™s the [official announcement](http://www.budget.gc.ca/2012/themes/theme2-eng.html): > [@](#): > > The Royal Canadian Mint (the Mint) will cease distribution of pennies to financial institutions effective fall 2012. The cent will continue to be Canadaā€™s smallest unit of currency for pricing goods and services, and pennies may continue to be used in cash transactions to make exact payment or change after the fall of 2012. > > Where pennies are not available, cash transactions should generally be rounded up or down to the nearest five-cent increment in a fair and transparent manner, after calculation of Goods and Services Tax (GST)/Harmonized Sales Tax (HST), where applicable. > > Non-cash payments, such as cheques, credit cards and debit cards, will continue to be settled to the nearest cent. > > After the Mint ceases distribution in the fall of 2012, businesses will be asked to return pennies through their financial institutions to the Mint for melting and recycling of the metal content. The Government will work closely with financial institutions to coordinate this penny redemption program. Charities are welcome to take advantage of the pennyā€™s withdrawal to increase their fundraising through penny drives. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/15 "2012-03-30T02:38:40Z")
In Australia, the prices advertised in shops always include the GST (goods and services tax ā€“ a form of VAT), so, if you wanted to, you could arrange your purchases so they ended in 2 or 7 as the total, so that you got 2 cents rounded off the total. But, while I say that you could do that, I donā€™t know of anyone who does. In addition, if a shop advertises an item at (say) 97 cents, my guess is that they do that knowing that they still make a profit with 95 cents paid for the item. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/16 "2012-03-30T03:00:09Z")
**Giles** , do your prices vary by locality within Australia? I think thatā€™s one reason our prices do _not_ include tax: we have different tax rates in each province. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/17 "2012-03-30T03:03:51Z")
Superb idea, and long overdue here too. Fuck the little old ladies. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/18 "2012-03-30T03:12:37Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > **Giles** , do your prices vary by locality within Australia? I think thatā€™s one reason our prices do _not_ include tax: we have different tax rates in each province. The Australian states, under the Australian Constitution, cannot impose any kind of sales tax or VAT, so the GST is uniform at 10% throughout the country. Generally you only see the GST on your receipt, which might say something like ā€œTotal $10.00 Includes $0.91 GSTā€. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/19 "2012-03-30T03:20:01Z")
Iā€™m against it. It would be better to slide the decimal to the right one place and make pennies worth 10x what they were. Whatā€™s the value of starting down a path where eventually the smallest coin in circulation will be the $1000? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2012, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208/20 "2012-03-30T03:39:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Whatā€™s the value of starting down a path where eventually the smallest coin in circulation will be the $1000? Reflecting reality? If we get to the point where itā€™s practical to have a $1000 coin, itā€™s going to be beyond ridiculous to keep lugging around pennies. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-penny-debate-canuck-edition/617208.md?page=2)