# The Pentagon is tracking a Chinese spy balloon **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228 "2023-02-03T01:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/342 "2023-02-06T03:33:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I would hope that one characteristic we would agree that a spy balloon must have would be a capability for spying, right? So, tell me what capability a balloon would have for spying. > > I mean, at this point, you might as well ask me how I know it’s not a unicorn. We in the public sure don’t know for sure. But it _may_ well be designed for ELINT, recording cellphone & internet traffic, perhaps monitoring military radar & nuclear command and control comms. The overflight _may_ well have been intended to learn what they could electronically and, more importantly, watch how the US reacted when they detected it. If the thing is doing visual / camera recon, that may simply be a sign the Chinese recon satellites don’t have quite the resolution they’d like. Nor the persistence. Yet. Last of all, upthread I cited the US SRTM from 20 years ago. I’d be somewhat surprised if a balloon would be a great tool for a similar mission, just due to power requirements. OTOH, modern solar cells & batteries are marvels compared to 20-40 years ago and that is one mongo balloon. They could still get some darn nice radar data if they could drive the thing close to where they wanted to look. Which might be very useful for deriving guidance data for maneuvering hypersonic ICBM RVs & shorter range attack missiles. We do similar shit all the time, so I’m not all bent out of shape about Chinese recklessness, temerity, evil, or whatever. IMO @Rick_Kitchen nailed it a couple posts ago. But that’s not to say the Chinese are necessarily peacefully researching weather or aurora borealis or stratospheric chemistry or whatever cover story they choose to use. WB-57s weren’t gathering data on pollen to improve honey production either. Despite what NOAA / NASA said. ---
**Author:** ![Ssounder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@Ssounder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ssounder)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/343 "2023-02-06T04:39:20Z")
As for the payload, my SWAG: As most people know, it’s easier to pick up low power radio signals the closer you get. I am an amateur radio hobbyist and I doubt that satellites can even identify the frequency of many low power signals that our military uses on ICBM sites. Look at a radio spectrum waterfall. The noise level exceeds many low level transmissions. You can see that somethings there, but there’s a lot of spurious signals in the radio spectrum so you can’t be sure what it is. So, if they are close enough to discover our low power spectrum, they just might make a note to jam those frequencies to disrupt communications if the need arose. Now for those that want to remind me that the frequency that our armed forces use changes; yes it does. -But the footprint it leaves on the waterfall might be identifiable and easier to track. One could program a scanner to monitor a wide range and concentrate on the footprint. As a reminder, I’m a hobbyist. IANASIGNET. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/344 "2023-02-06T09:05:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Does anyone doubt Trump would have had it shot down over downtown Chicago rather than let it cross the entire country? > > I can’t imagine Loser Donald lifting a finger to do anything about anything in a state that didn’t vote for him. Not even allowing debris to fall on it? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/345 "2023-02-06T09:17:11Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Not even allowing debris to fall on it? Heavens, no. It might hit his big beautiful hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/346 "2023-02-06T09:28:36Z")
I want an American balloon to go over Zhongnanhai or Tienanmen square and slowly sink down to about 100-foot level, then rise up to 90,000, then back down, ad infinitum, for trollery ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/347 "2023-02-06T09:40:18Z")
So… you want to teabag China? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/348 "2023-02-06T09:53:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I want an American balloon to go over Zhongnanhai or Tienanmen square If launched from the US, you’d be lucky to get a balloon within 1000 miles of either of those places. Hell, you’d be lucky to get to go over any part of China. And that’s why I think this was no spy balloon. Untethered balloons are one of the worst ways to try to spy on a particular place. There’s probably a dozen or more ways to be more certain to get results. From what I’ve read, they’ve been launching these balloons for years, probably dozens of launches. They’ve been going in all different directions, as balloons are wont to do, but when one happens to go across the US, suddenly it’s a spy. That has to be one of the least effective spy technologies ever. So I’m not buying the spy notion. Now if they’d launched from somewhere much closer to the US, say off a ship just outside the territorial waters, then I might give it some credence. Considering its trajectory, it clearly was not launched from such a location. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/349 "2023-02-06T10:42:13Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > From what I’ve read, they’ve been launching these balloons for years, probably dozens of launches. They’ve been going in all different directions, as balloons are wont to do, but when one happens to go across the US, suddenly it’s a spy. That has to be one of the least effective spy technologies ever. That’s right. Here’s that graphic again from an earlier post; why China wants to spy on the Andaman Islands is anyone’s guess. [![](https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/new-project-17-1-jpg.57722/) ](https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/new-project-17-1-jpg.57722/) Acknowledgements to Metabunk. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/350 "2023-02-06T10:54:26Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > why China wants to spy on the Andaman Islands is anyone’s guess. The Sentinelese are up to _something_ over there. Why else would they be attacking everyone who approaches their island? ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/351 "2023-02-06T11:03:51Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, but that list is by pilot, not plane. Oops – missed the _by plane type_ part. That would be tricky. To be sure you’d have to track down each of the pilots’ squadrons and from there find which plane the group was flying at the time. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/352 "2023-02-06T11:45:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Weather balloons exist. Spy balloons don’t. This thing exists, and in that regard, it’s a lot more like a weather balloon than a spy balloon. According to a Defense Department briefing given by Gen. Ryder on Feb 3, this was absolutely a spy balloon. Gen. Ryder refused to give specifics on most details when asked. > [@Defense Department](#): > > First of all, we are aware of the PRC’s statement. However, the fact is we know that it’s a surveillance balloon, and I’m not going to be able to be more specific than that The full briefing can be found here: [https://www.c-span.org/video/?525811-1/pentagon-chinese-spy-balloon-headed-east-us](https://www.c-span.org/video/?525811-1/pentagon-chinese-spy-balloon-headed-east-us) The quote comes from around the 4:50 mark or so. The question asked starts at 4:30. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/353 "2023-02-06T12:22:55Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > So I’m not buying the spy notion. Now if they’d launched from somewhere much closer to the US, say off a ship just outside the territorial waters, then I might give it some credence. For me, it’s a moot point because it is a device launched by a major power that has been hostile towards the United States, and it is over United States air space. That’s certainly enough cause to bring it down and examine it in detail. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/354 "2023-02-06T12:50:53Z")
The spot where something was seen is not necessarily the same as the target. It has to travel to get where it’s going, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/355 "2023-02-06T13:25:00Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Weather balloons exist. Spy balloons don’t. What gives you that idea? Spy balloons certainly _have_ existed; while they have generally been superseded by satellites I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that there may be certain functions (interception of low-power radio traffic, perhaps) where a balloon would be equal or superior. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/356 "2023-02-06T13:31:06Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Apparently, Canada (and NORAD, so the US saw it too) did see it, since last weekend, actually: I meant no one from the general populace on the ground. NORAD is a joint Canada/US effort, so the Canadian Govt knew about it. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/357 "2023-02-06T13:35:59Z")
This is only one balloon out of a program of more than a dozen launches in the last few years, including at least three which have intruded on US airspace. This one only managed to attract attention because it passed over the Malmstrom ICBM sites; it seems very likely that this was an accident, rather than by design, since none of the others came near sensitive sites. Maybe the Chinese were able to gather SIGINT/ELINT data from these flights, but I suspect this was only a fortuitous side effect. Such a huge balloon could not be kept secret when flying over inhabited locations. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/358 "2023-02-06T13:37:59Z")
It did pass over several military installations. The US used balloons to sense Russia atom bomb tests in the 1950s. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/359 "2023-02-06T13:39:11Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > What gives you that idea? Spy balloons certainly _have_ existed; while they have generally been superseded by satellites I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that there may be certain functions (interception of low-power radio traffic, perhaps) where a balloon would be equal or superior. > **[Israel deploys new aerostat radar](https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/israel-deploys-new-aerostat-radar)** > > The Israeli Ministry of Defense (MoD) announced on 3 November that the Israel Missile Defense Organization (IMDO) is testing an aerostat with a new radar capable of... ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/360 "2023-02-06T13:40:24Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The US used balloons to sense Russia atom bomb tests in the 1950s. “Balloons”, you say… [![](https://cms.accuweather.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/roswell.png?w=632) ](https://cms.accuweather.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/roswell.png?w=632) ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/361 "2023-02-06T13:41:20Z")
I mean, one possibility is that it’s just a form of trolling. We’ll send an inexpensive “weather balloon” over the US and get some info on how they react and cause a political headache while they’re at it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=19)