# The Pentagon is tracking a Chinese spy balloon **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228 "2023-02-03T01:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/21 "2023-02-03T12:34:37Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > They wouldn’t have to shoot it down while it was over a city. We have thousands of square miles of virtually uninhabited land that it will also be passing over. Apparently these balloons don’t just pop and plummet when they’re shot down, they can take [several days](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/07/08/stratospheric-balloons-will-rain-tiny-electronic-spies-from-the-sky/?sh=5c642e3e1985) to actually descend: > The balloons are stealthy, and can fly at altitudes of 90,000 feet or more, putting them well above the reach of most surface-to-air missiles. They are also extremely hard to shoot down: there are no fuel tanks to puncture or engines to damage. Shrapnel that would destroy an aircraft simply leaves a few small holes in the balloon envelope. When a giant weather balloon drifted off course in 1998, Canadian CF-18 Hornet pilots [riddled it with more than a thousand cannon shells](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/162084.stm) and several rockets with no noticeable effect. British and America jets also failed to bring the stray balloon down and it only crashed after several days. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/22 "2023-02-03T12:35:35Z")
[![](https://i.gifer.com/MyRd.gif) ](https://i.gifer.com/MyRd.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/23 "2023-02-03T12:37:26Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Apparently these balloons don’t just pop and plummet when they’re shot down, they can take [several days](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/07/08/stratospheric-balloons-will-rain-tiny-electronic-spies-from-the-sky/?sh=5c642e3e1985) to actually descend: Ah, thank you! I was unaware of the dynamics. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/24 "2023-02-03T12:59:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Are they sure it’s not a dapper English gentleman attempting to win a bet he made with his chums at the club Sometimes, this kind of thing happens. It’s often ascribed to the Fogg of war. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/25 "2023-02-03T13:13:36Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Apparently these balloons don’t just pop and plummet when they’re shot down, they can take [several days](https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2020/07/08/stratospheric-balloons-will-rain-tiny-electronic-spies-from-the-sky/?sh=5c642e3e1985) to actually descend: What about an incendiary device? Wouldn’t fire destroy the balloon? ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/26 "2023-02-03T13:38:59Z")
Yeah, and what about the other 98 balloons? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/27 "2023-02-03T13:40:41Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > > On the ground in Montana, Jeffrey Sherlock, a retired state district court judge in Helena, agreed that the balloon was a “provocative” move. But he also expressed wonder that the Chinese would have been interested in his part of the country. > > > “I can’t believe they are spying on Billings, Mont.,” he said. “There’s not much there.” > > If only there were a pithy way to tell this Sherlock fellow how obvious his comment is… Got a genuine LOL out of that. Thank you; you win the thread. More seriously, if the balloon is Chinese spy stuff, it’s much more likely to be doing electronic surveillance than recording images via camera. For detecting whatever sneaky radio stuff the US uses, you’ve got to get closer than high orbit. As noted by others above, shooting these things down is hard. Any attempt has a high risk of failure which would be a face-losing move for USAF / DoD. IMO the “We didn’t shoot it down because we might hurt somebody on the ground” is pure misdirection for what’s really “We didn’t try because we’d probably fail and look inept.” Another thought is this is essentially the equivalent of the USN FONOPS near the Chinese coast inside the “nine dashed line” where China claims sovereignty over far more ocean than any treaty permits. The Chinese are sending an unsubtle message of “We can overfly your country any time we want carrying anything we want. Neener neener!” An interesting meta-question is why the DoD decided to go public about this balloon and not (AFAIK) any of the several previous such balloons. What is different this time? > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > What about an incendiary device? Wouldn’t fire destroy the balloon? There’s not much atmosphere up there. And it’s real cold. Even if you could put a sustained flame against the balloon envelope until it starts to burn, it might well self-extinguish as soon as your flame was removed. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/28 "2023-02-03T13:56:07Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > And China has actual spy satellites so why would they do that? This is a lot closer than a spy satellite (about 600-1200 miles(?) compared to 17 miles). ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/29 "2023-02-03T13:56:46Z")
And of course, over in the MAGASphere this is proof of some combination of: -Biden’s ineptitude -Biden being in the pocket of the Chinese -Military being to woke to shoot Ugh. This is why we can’t have nice things. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/30 "2023-02-03T13:57:08Z")
[China](https://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/xwfw_665399/s2510_665401/2535_665405/202302/t20230203_11019484.html) has put out a statement. > The airship is from China. It is a civilian airship used for research, mainly meteorological, purposes. Affected by the Westerlies and with limited self-steering capability, the airship deviated far from its planned course. The Chinese side regrets the unintended entry of the airship into US airspace due to _force majeure_. The Chinese side will continue communicating with the US side and properly handle this unexpected situation caused by _force majeure._ Even if that’s a total crock, it’s probably good that they felt the need to say it. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/31 "2023-02-03T14:26:36Z")
You don’t need a balloon to see the nuke silos here in Montana–you can see them from the highway. And they are plenty big and plenty obvious enough to spot from a satellite. I would be completely shocked if any satellite-capable nation did not have a comprehensive map of all our silos. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/32 "2023-02-03T14:28:09Z")
You can probably spot most of them with a trained eye on google maps satellite images. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/33 "2023-02-03T14:37:24Z")
Or just get their coordinates from the public Wiki page: > **[341st Missile Wing LGM-30 Minuteman missile launch sites](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/341st_Missile_Wing_LGM-30_Minuteman_missile_launch_sites)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}47°30′17″N 111°11′14″W / 47.50472°N 111.18722°W / 47.50472; -111.18722 (Malmstrom AFB) > This is a list of the LGM-30 Minuteman missile Missile Alert Facilities and Launch Fac... They aren’t secret. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/34 "2023-02-03T14:48:26Z")
Not that I trust the Chinese government, but their explanation seems reasonable. They know where the missile sites are already as does every other interested government. Next on FOX- is the balloon being controlled by Hunter Biden’s laptop to identify American gun owners? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/35 "2023-02-03T14:53:34Z")
The assumption that it’s being used to visually locate missile silos might not be accurate. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/36 "2023-02-03T14:57:23Z")
As with that Australian radioactive capsule story, this one bristles with unanswered (and probably unposed) questions 1.) Why didn’t we hear anything about this until the balloon was over Montana? Shouldn’t this have triggered some sort of flag as soon as it entered US airspace? 2.) If this is a Chinese civilian balloon gone wrong, why didn’t the explanation make the new immediately, or at least when the balloon was over US territory? 3.) I agree that the Chinese could learn about US things from “way up high” by using spy satellites, which everyone knows are up there, and which people don’t generally complain about. Using an extremely visible balloon is a hugely public thing to do, and there’s no point unless you either DO want to make a splash. Or you’ve got a spy camera with lousy optics. By the way, as I’ve observed before, even though many copies of _Around the World in Eighty Days_ has a balloon on the cover (and it’s in virtually every movie version), at no point in Verne’s novel does Phlleas Fogg ever ride in a balloon. Verne probably would’ve loved the idea – several of his heroes take balloon trips, and it was the subject of his first big hit, _Five Weeks in a Balloon_. But it’s not in AtWi80D. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/37 "2023-02-03T14:57:48Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > The assumption that it’s being used to visually locate missile silos might not be accurate. It can’t be accurate. Their locations are in the public domain. I’ve been to an MMIII silo (and went down in to it). [There’s not much to see on top](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/341st_Missile_Wing_LGM-30_Minuteman_missile_launch_sites#/media/File:LF-D-09-44th_Missile_Wing.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/38 "2023-02-03T15:08:34Z")
> **[Fu-Go balloon bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fu-Go_balloon_bomb)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Fu-Go (ふ号\[兵器\], fugō \[heiki\], lit. "Code Fu \[Weapon\]") was an incendiary balloon weapon (風船爆弾, fūsen bakudan, lit. "balloon bomb") deployed by Japan against the United States during World War II. A hydrogen balloon measuring 10 metres (33 ft) in diameter, it carried a payload of two 11-pound (5.0 kg) incendiary devices plus one 33-pound (15 kg) anti-personnel bomb (or alternatively one 26-pound (12 kg) incendiary bomb), and was intended to start ... > **[Operation Outward](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Outward)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Operation Outward was a British campaign of the Second World War that attacked Germany and German-occupied Europe with free-flying balloons. It made use of cheap, simple balloons filled with hydrogen and carrying either a trailing steel wire to damage high voltage power lines by producing a short circuit, or incendiary devices to start fires in fields, forests and heathland. A total of 99,142 Outward balloons were launched; about half carried in... Related. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/39 "2023-02-03T15:25:06Z")
Maybe it’s Ron DeSantis’s trial balloon. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/40 "2023-02-03T15:35:46Z")
All the more reason to shoot it down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=3)