# The Pentagon is tracking a Chinese spy balloon **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 3, 2023, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228 "2023-02-03T01:32:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/682 "2023-02-13T02:43:42Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out why they used explosive munitions and not guns Probably because guns only make small holes which wouldn’t deflate the balloon very fast. These large balloons don’t pop like a small rubber balloon. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/683 "2023-02-13T03:07:13Z")
> [@Dr.Colossus](#): > > I’m still trying to figure out why they used explosive munitions and not guns, especially if we intended on recovering the debris to gather intel. A missile is guided, bullets have to be aimed while flying at high speeds. If it’s a ground attack aircraft you see a strafing line but in the air you’re limited to tracer rounds. Ideally you want a missile that tracks a laser dot that another aircraft paints on the balloon. If that were the case you could pull the explosive out of a missile and let it punch a large hole in the balloon and not shred it in an explosion that damages everything including the payload you want to examine. ---
**Author:** ![WellHelloThere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9dc877/32.png) [@WellHelloThere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WellHelloThere)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/684 "2023-02-13T03:18:47Z")
Besides what other posters have said, these planes are designed to shoot down other aircraft from a long way away. The cannon they have is formidable but it is really only meant to be used as last ditch effort; the missiles are the real weapons. There may not be much intel to gather, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/685 "2023-02-13T04:06:50Z")
I can’t find the article now, but about 20 years ago Canadian keys tried to shoot down a balloon with bullets. The bullet holes weren’t enough to bring it down and it drifted all the way across the Atlantic. Bullet holes just aren’t big enough to bring a balloon down, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/686 "2023-02-13T04:34:32Z")
A summary of today’s proceedings: > **[F-16 Shoots Down "Octagonal Object" Over Lake Huron (Updated)](https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/fighters-shoot-down-object-over-lake-huron)** > > For the third time in three days, an unknown object has been shot down, a U.S. Rep. from Michigan said Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/687 "2023-02-13T05:59:59Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > I just looked, it appears we actually still use them. I was surprised too when it was reported they were used to surveil and/or interfere with the first (Chinese) Balloon. > **[U-2 spy planes monitored Chinese balloon during USA transit](https://www.flightglobal.com/fixed-wing/u-2-spy-planes-monitored-chinese-balloon-during-usa-transit/152011.article)** > > While the US military is keeping quiet about what measures it took during the recent balloon flyover, a senior American diplomat says high-altitude Lockheed Martin U-2 reconnaissance aircraft were used to collect information on the airship. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/688 "2023-02-13T07:44:59Z")
> [@WellHelloThere](#): > > If we are going back that far, we can talk about the U2 spyplane as well. A major diplomatic fiasco when the Soviets shot one down. I just looked, it appears we actually still use them. Did not know that. Gary Powers’ U2 was a weather plane. Didn’t you know that? 😁 > [@WellHelloThere](#): > > China still says it was a weather observation craft. Knowing full well we can show proof otherwise. Maybe it actually was what they said. That’s not how they roll, admitting they were wrong. Zero Covid was the absolutely right policy, and then within a week opening up the country was absolutely the right policy. And anyone saying anything against either will get censored at best. Sometimes I think they use _1984_ as a manual or something. We were always not at war with Covid. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/689 "2023-02-13T15:00:23Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I can’t find the article now, but about 20 years ago Canadian keys tried to shoot down a balloon with bullets. The bullet holes weren’t enough to bring it down and it drifted all the way across the Atlantic. > > Bullet holes just aren’t big enough to bring a balloon down, apparently. I figured we had learned that lesson in WWI, when the British were trying to shoot down the German Bomber Airships. They eventually figured they had to shoot repeatedly in one spot to make a hole big enough for the hydrogen to escape. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/690 "2023-02-13T15:07:59Z")
Incendiary rounds helped once air got to the hydrogen. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/691 "2023-02-13T15:20:39Z")
It did, but they didn’t work until one pilot said, “I’m gonna shoot at that one spot until something happens.” ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/692 "2023-02-13T15:34:42Z")
I wonder why they didn’t just use the same strategy they used on enemy planes. Don’t aim at the aircraft; aim at the crew. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/693 "2023-02-13T16:18:46Z")
If, as is being presumed, the radar anomaly object over Montana and the UFO shot down over Lake Huron are the same, then it travelled around 1200 miles (2000 km) in a day, so moving at around 50 mph. Compared with hot-air balloons, which fly lower at around 500-1000 feet, this appears to be fast: > [@](#): > > Since the balloon travels with the wind, the balloon will only go as fast as the wind is blowing, which varies from ground level to higher altitudes. Generally balloons will not travel much faster than 8-10 mph. [Balloons Over Rockbridge - Ballooning FAQs](https://www.balloonsoverrockbridge.com/ballooning-faqs/#:~:text=How%20fast%20and%20how%20far,faster%20than%208%2D10%20mph). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/694 "2023-02-13T16:25:52Z")
The jet stream begins at 32,000 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/695 "2023-02-13T16:27:00Z")
The Lake Huron UFO was traveling at about 20,000 feet (6,100 m). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/696 "2023-02-13T16:30:57Z")
Meh, I believe a 50mph wind at 20,000 feet is plausible. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/697 "2023-02-13T16:31:29Z")
Maybe it’s not out of the ordinary: > [@](#): > > Yet, the wind speed at this altitude is not as fast as they are at 20,000 – 50,000 feet above the earth. Winds move faster and more consistent the higher one climbs, maxing out in the jet streams. At this altitude, the winds exceed 57 MPH and at times reach 247 MPH. [High Altitude Wind Energy | AltEnergyMag](https://www.altenergymag.com/article/2013/10/high-altitude-wind-energy/1315#:~:text=Yet%2C%20the%20wind%20speed%20at,at%20times%20reach%20247%20MPH). ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/698 "2023-02-13T16:37:47Z")
Anyone else think that the extra shoot downs are simply the result of exta vigilance or poltical pressure after the Chinese balloon? These may be more mundane objects that were simply ignored in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/699 "2023-02-13T16:46:22Z")
This is one of the big questions. Objects moving at, for example, 50 mph would normally be considered too slow to be a threat, such as a plane or missile, and so not picked up and monitored by detection filters. From earlier article: > [@](#): > > -Radars filter out information based on clutter, such as low-speed clutter. They have adjusted some of those filter ‘gates’ including velocity and altitude gates to see what was out there after the Chinese balloon incident. This was paired with a heightened alert to look for these types of targets. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/700 "2023-02-13T16:47:27Z")
I am unable to recall where I read it, but one thing I read said that normally the radars (or whatever) are tuned to ignore these types of things, lest they go after every sparrow and Estes model rocket. The thinking was that we’ve now “turned up the gain” and are seeing lots of new stuff. Which feeds into my opinion that the first one was real, and these others have been hysterics. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228/701 "2023-02-13T17:23:50Z")
The USAF should dust off some P-51Ds and put them on anti-“object” duty. They had a service ceiling of 42,000 ft and seem better suiter to interception and identifying floating objects than an F-22 or F-16 zooming by at 400+ kts. I kid of course, but it would be cool 🕶 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-pentagon-is-tracking-a-chinese-spy-balloon/979228.md?page=36)