# The People vs \_\_\_\_ **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 29, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301 "2007-08-29T01:20:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/1 "2007-08-29T01:20:01Z")
I recently served on a jury and the case was refered to as “Commonwealth of Pennsylvania vs \_\_\_\_\_”, not “The People vs \_\_\_\_” that’s used in TV. Do most states really bring prosecutions in the name “The People” instead of “State of X” or is this just a PA thing? ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/2 "2007-08-29T01:33:38Z")
I think it all means the same thing, “The People of the State of Texas vs. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” Sometimes they just say “the people” and sometimes they just say “the state of…” One of them lawyer people will probably be able to clarify whether there are actually subtle differences, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/3 "2007-08-29T01:54:04Z")
I think “People vs.” and “U.S. vs.” are more commonly associated with Federal cases, but I’m not sure that there’s any hard and fast rule saying a state can’t also use “People vs.” Personally I’ve seen “State vs.” and “State of X vs.” most frequently but I’m not much of an expert. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/4 "2007-08-29T02:18:27Z")
It varies from state to state and state v. feds. It’s all custom and/or statute law as to how cases should be formed before a court. I believe that New York State uses the “People of the State of New York vs.” label whereas other states may use “State of \* vs.” and others use “Officer John Doe vs.” almost like a civil case where the arresting officer is the plaintiff… ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/5 "2007-08-29T02:50:45Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, you foreign dopers, you, but in Canada and the UK isn’t it usually “The Crown vs …” or “The Queen vs…” ? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/6 "2007-08-29T03:09:13Z")
[QUOTE=Do Not Taunt] Correct me if I’m wrong, you foreign dopers, you, but in Canada and the UK isn’t it usually “The Crown vs …” or “The Queen vs…” ? [/QUOTE] Right…criminal cases generally get referenced in the form “R v. Do Not Taunt” ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/7 "2007-08-29T03:13:08Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Right…criminal cases generally get referenced in the form “R v. Do Not Taunt” [/QUOTE] The _R_ being short for _Rex_ or _Regina_ depending on the monarch’s sex. Don’t some courts in Canada change their name depending on whether a king or queen is on the throne? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/8 "2007-08-29T04:25:48Z")
The other thing is that- at least in UK/Australian/NZ usage- _R v Citizen_ is pronounced as “Crown _and_ Citizen”, not “Crown _versus_ Citizen”. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/9 "2007-08-29T04:55:55Z")
[QUOTE=Do Not Taunt] Correct me if I’m wrong, you foreign dopers, you, but in Canada and the UK isn’t it usually “The Crown vs …” or “The Queen vs…” ? [/QUOTE] Both types of citation are used in Australian jurisdictions: [AJS v The Queen](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/cth/HCA/2007/27.html) [R v Heffernan](http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/nsw/supreme_ct/2005/739.html) > [@Martini Enfield](#): > > The other thing is that- at least in UK/Australian/NZ usage- R v Citizen is pronounced as “Crown and Citizen”, not “Crown versus Citizen”. We were taught to pronounce them as: “A and B” for the civil case _A v B_ “The Crown against B” for the criminal case _R v B_ ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/10 "2007-08-29T06:31:56Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] We were taught to pronounce them as: “A and B” for the civil case _A v B_ “The Crown against B” for the criminal case _R v B_ [/QUOTE] Yes, you’re correct there- Sorry, I should have mentioned that as well. The main point, of course, is that it’s considered a spectacularly n00bish thing (in the UK/Australia/NZ, anyway) to describe a case as “Crown (or worse, “R”) versus Citizen”, which is in contrast to the US pronounciation, as I understand it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/11 "2007-08-29T06:40:37Z")
Isn’t it confusing to use “The People v \_\_\_”? We have fifty different state court systems plus the federal. The People of California have a different set of laws than the People of New York. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/12 "2007-08-29T17:09:44Z")
Not particularly confusing. How many states’ courts does your average person hop around to, anyway? Most people are only ever going to be in a court of their own state. Criminal case captions are always “The United States v. \_\_\_\_\_\_” in Federal court, but vary in the state courts. In Virginia, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and Massachusetts (and presumably Puerto Rico), it’s “The Commonwealth of [whatever] v. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” In Ohio felony cases, it’s “The State of Ohio v. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_.” In misdemeanor criminal cases in municipal court, it’s “The City of [whatever] v. \_\_\_\_\_\_.” We don’t use “The People v. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_” here. The only state that does that I’m aware of (although I’m sure there are others) is California. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/13 "2007-08-29T17:12:57Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] We don’t use “The People v. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_” here. The only state that does that I’m aware of (although I’m sure there are others) is California. [/QUOTE] New York uses “The People of the State of New York v. \_\_\_\_\_” In conversation, it’s just “People vs. \_\_\_\_\_.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/14 "2007-08-29T17:23:50Z")
Good to know. On a slight tangent… criminal cases within a state will be cited as we’ve discussed, but if such a case goes all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, it will be cited by the state’s name to distinguish it from all the others, given the USSC’s national jurisdiction. Thus, it’d be _State v. Jones_ here in the Buckeye State, but _Ohio v. Jones_ by the time it reached the Supremes. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/15 "2007-08-29T18:23:33Z")
[QUOTE=Cunctator] “A and B” for the civil case _A v B_ “The Crown against B” for the criminal case _R v B_ [/QUOTE] How do you pronounce a civil case of _A and B v C_? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/16 "2007-08-29T18:25:17Z")
Michigan too. > [@](#): > > Here, defendant argues that under People v Bobo, 390 Mich 355, 359-361; 212 NW2d 190 (1973), a prosecutor is precluded from cross-examining a defendant regarding a prior statement, including omissions, to a police officer. However, People v Collier, 426 Mich 23, 39; 393 NW2d 346 (1986), limited the Bobo decision, holding that Bobo only precludes impeachment for and comment on silence at the time of arrest in the face of accusation. [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mi&vol=appeals\022500\6381&invol=2](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=mi&vol=appeals%5C022500%5C6381&invol=2) Sometimes states use Commonwealth v., too: [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=MA&vol=appslip/97p2331&invol=1](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=MA&vol=appslip/97p2331&invol=1) [http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/Supreme/out/J-15A&B-2006mo.pdf](http://www.courts.state.pa.us/OpPosting/Supreme/out/J-15A&B-2006mo.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/17 "2007-08-29T20:06:43Z")
[QUOTE=alphaboi867] The _R_ being short for _Rex_ or _Regina_ depending on the monarch’s sex. Don’t some courts in Canada change their name depending on whether a king or queen is on the throne? [/QUOTE] Depends on the province. Some provinces (such as Alberta) have a Court of Queen’s Bench. Obviously, that’s because there’s a Queen currently on the throne. If Elizabeth died and Charles became King, it would be the Court of King’s Bench. Ontario uses different appelations for its equvalent level of court–I’ve seen both Ontario Court of Justice and Ontario Superior Court of Justice as the names for Ontario’s equivalent of Alberta’s Court of Queen’s Bench. Not living in Ontario any more though, I’m unsure which is in current use. And of course, each province has specialized courts for family law, small claims, etc.; plus a Court of Appeal. But these don’t carry a “King’s” or “Queen’s” designation. Neither, for that matter, does the Supreme Court of Canada. In cases involving the monarch–such as a criminal case, which would always be styled on paper as _R. v. Defendant Name_–it would be acceptable to pronounce the case as either “Regina and Defendant Name” or “Crown and Defendant Name.” I’ve also heard “R [pronounced “ar”] and Defendant Name” said as well, but generally only in colloquial conversation. I believe (but am not sure) that the “Regina” usage is most common in court however; and of course “Rex” would replace “Regina” if a male was on the throne. However, the prosecution side in court would always be known as “the Crown,” and the lawyer(s) arguing that side would be the “Crown Prosecutor(s),” regardless of who occupies the throne. If that all seems a little confusing, here’s how all these terms might be used in a sentence: “In the case of _R. v. Smith_, the Crown’s case was argued by Sue Jones, the Crown Prosecutor in the city of …” ---
**Author:** ![Rashaverak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a5b964/32.png) [@Rashaverak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashaverak)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/18 "2007-08-29T20:43:06Z")
[QUOTE=groman] How do you pronounce a civil case of _A and B v C_? [/QUOTE] A and B against C. It’s sometimes (at least in the UK) pronounced ‘vee’, but as **Martini Enfield** noted, never ‘versus’. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/19 "2007-08-29T20:52:21Z")
Colorado also uses “The People of the State of Colorado v. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_,” at least on court documents. I don’t know how cases are referred to conversationally. Probably by case number–it’s what I use, but I’m not a lawyer or a court officer. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301/20 "2007-08-29T22:06:57Z")
In citations and conversation, it looks like this: > [@](#): > > In construing a statute, we must ascertain and effectuate the legislative intent, which is to be discerned, when possible, from the plain and ordinary meaning of the statutory language. People v. Longoria, 862 P.2d 266 (Colo. 1993). Constructions that defeat the obvious legislative intent should be avoided and, when possible, a statute should be interpreted so as to give consistent and sensible effect to all its parts. People v. Dist. Court, 713 P.2d 918 (Colo. 1986) [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004app\4722&invol=1](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=co&vol=2004app%5C4722&invol=1) Washington is a “State v. \_\_\_\_\_” state: > [@](#): > > We begin by determining and giving effect to the intent of the Legislature. State v. Hansen, 122 Wn.2d 712, 717, 862 P.2d 117 (1993). Whenever possible, we interpret a statute so as to render no part meaningless or superfluous. Different language signifies different intent. State v. Jackson, 137 Wn.2d 712, 724, 976 P.2d 1229 (1999) [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wa&vol=2001\_app/19111-7&invol=3](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=wa&vol=2001_app/19111-7&invol=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-people-vs-____/417301.md?page=2)