# The perfect Reuben? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065 "2014-11-19T14:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/21 "2014-11-19T17:49:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > When I was a kid, we’d buy Russian dressing but then a few years ago I asked for it at a restaurant and was looked at like I had two heads. The waiter had never heard of it. Meanwhile, the whole Russian vs Thousand Island dressing thing is a whole bit of controversy itself. To me, Russian is basically Thousand Island without the relish, but that’s not even settled territory. A lot say that Russian starts with a milk fat like yogurt or sour cream vs mayonnaise. Others insist that Russian always has horseradish, while Thousand Island doesn’t. Some say Thousand Island includes a chopped up hard boiled egg (don’t think I’ve seen this myself.) Others insist that Russian dressing should contain caviar (yet another variation I personally have not seen.) The definitions are all over the map.[Here’s one discussion about it](http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/680372), for reference. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/22 "2014-11-19T18:28:25Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > Zingerman’s deli in Ann Arbor is a pretty good source for sandwich info. They sell a Reuben kit with these [instructions](http://www.zingermans.com/Articles/sandwich%20kit%20instructions_AUG15.pdf) (Danger! Warning! PDF!). They use Russian dressing. > > Coincidentally, it’s Reuben day in our cafeteria. I had a highly anticipated Reuben at Zingerman’s several years ago, but it had what I think of as Thousand Island, that pale orange, pickle-relish infused stuff. I see from the other threads that there’s some controversy as to what Russian dressing actually is, so maybe that’s what Zingerman’s calls Russian. I’m on a phone, so I don’t want to attempt opening that Reuben instruction PDF right now. Happy Reuben Day! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/23 "2014-11-19T18:59:20Z")
Best Reubens I’ve ever had were at the Lincoln Del in Minneapolis. My go-to dish on the menu. FWIW, after 20+ years of living in Russia, I have yet to see anything remotely resembling either 1000 Islands or so-called “Russian” dressing there, except at McDonald’s. Real Russian salads are heavy on the mayo or horseradish. Of course, green salads are pretty much unheard of in Russia (again, except at McDonald’s). Salads are usually potato- or cheese-based. (One other lovely salad is called “Herring in a Fur Coat”: Marinated fish smothered in grated beets and sour cream, with some chopped hard-boiled egg on top. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm!) Horseradish and mayo on roast beef, corned beef, or pastrami is divine! :o ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/24 "2014-11-19T18:59:53Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Coleslaw is usually paired with pastrami for a Rachel instead of a Reuben. I’ve never seen a Reuben with dark dressing, only a paler Russian or 1000 Island. Well, today I learned that my favorite sandwich is a Rachel and not a Reuben. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/25 "2014-11-19T19:06:25Z")
Woody Allen apparently created a Reuben-type sandwich that contains both pastrami and corned beef, but I forget what it’s called. (IIRC, this was once a question on\*\*\* Jeopardy!\*\*\*) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/26 "2014-11-19T19:13:26Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Woody Allen apparently created a Reuben-type sandwich that contains both pastrami and corned beef, but I forget what it’s called. (IIRC, this was once a question on\*\*\* Jeopardy!\*\*\*) [The Woody Allen.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/23/225407755/sandwich-monday-the-woody-allen)😛 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/27 "2014-11-19T19:22:04Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You can make a sandwich similar to a Reuben with cole slaw instead of kraut, and it can be good, but it’s not a Reuben. Agreed. But one of the terms I’ve heard used for it is ‘Russian Reuben’. Not that I approve, we really need an international standards committee for the names and ingredients of foods. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/28 "2014-11-19T19:26:41Z")
Roxy’s Diner in Seattle has great reubens and various neo-reuben stuff. Theirs errs on the side of being a thick soppy mess, where you actively have to slurp the dressing and kraut juice off of your fingers between every bite. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/29 "2014-11-19T19:59:44Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > [The Woody Allen.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/23/225407755/sandwich-monday-the-woody-allen)😛 Give that man a free lunch at Sardi’s! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/30 "2014-11-19T20:01:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > > [@terentii](#): > > > > Woody Allen apparently created a Reuben-type sandwich that contains both pastrami and corned beef, but I forget what it’s called. (IIRC, this was once a question on\*\*\* Jeopardy!\*\*\*) > > [The Woody Allen.](http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2013/09/23/225407755/sandwich-monday-the-woody-allen)😛 I assume the category was Stupid Answers? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/31 "2014-11-19T20:07:30Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > FWIW, after 20+ years of living in Russia, I have yet to see anything remotely resembling either 1000 Islands or so-called “Russian” dressing there, except at McDonald’s. Real Russian salads are heavy on the mayo or horseradish. [Here’s a fun little article](http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/russian_dressing) (at least to me), about what various meanings Russian dressing has had historically. As you can see, it is _all_ over the map, although those sources do all seem to agree on mayonnaise as a base (which is also how I’ve encountered it), rather than the sour cream/yogurt mentioned in other articles. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/32 "2014-11-19T20:15:26Z")
In classic American homestyle cooking (i.e. bland) Russian Dressing is mayo and ketchup. Thousand Island is Russian Dressing with common pickle relish. I’m not surprised to hear that restaurants don’t have it and waiters never heard of it as Dewey Finn reports, Russian is disregared as a dressing and people generally assume Thousand Island is a good enough equivalent. I’m pretty disgusted with major brand bottled dressings in general. Some vinagrettes and the like are ok, but anything with a creamy texture is just going to be a batch of thickeners and artifical coloring and flavors. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/33 "2014-11-19T20:17:43Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > In classic American homestyle cooking (i.e. bland) Russian Dressing is mayo and ketchup. Thousand Island is Russian Dressing with common pickle relish. Yeah, that’s more-or-less how I know it, too. Or with “chili sauce” (which is essentially a slightly more piquant version of ketchup) instead of ketchup. ---
**Author:** ![Mooch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mooch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mooch)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/34 "2014-11-19T20:30:27Z")
I just had a burger called “The Hoosier” over the weekend which was, essentially, a Reuben with a 10oz medium grilled burger inside. It was delicious, but sent me into a food coma. My favorite Reuben is served at [Hackney’s](http://www.hackneys.net/locations/chicago/) - although my research is far from thorough or complete. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/35 "2014-11-19T20:45:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Blasphemy perhaps, but I prefer a pastrami Reuben to the original corned beef. Here, here!! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/36 "2014-11-19T20:58:57Z")
> [@bump](#): > > According to the book “[The Artisan Jewish Deli at Home](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BSHNZUG?btkr=1)”, a Reuben uses Russian dressing, which is a mixture of mayonnaise, ketchup, worcestershire, hot sauce and pickle relish. A Reuben has meat and cheese. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/37 "2014-11-19T21:06:26Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Wishbone had Russian dressing, but it was more, like you say, along the lines of French or Catalina, not really the standard type of Russian dressing, which is more like a thousand island. (Although looking online, it does seem like some of the Wishbone bottles are creamier looking than the very red ones I remember, although those, too, seem to still exist.) I don’t think they make this stuff any more. There was a bar that made a thing called a Moishe, which was like a Reuben but a little different. They did use the darker dressing, and I loved it. (It was more like that Wishbone stuff you could buy long ago but can’t any more.) I will have to visit this bar and see if they still make them this way. Every other Reuben I’ve had has had Russian dressing that is actually like Thousand Island. Similar to. I don’t know exactly what the difference is. Wishbone also used to make a “French” dressing that was not at all like Julia Child’s (or anybody else’s). Both the “Russian” and the “French” were, in my memory, somewhat sweeter than the current standard, along with being a different color. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/38 "2014-11-19T21:33:18Z")
Wishbone still makes their Russian dressing. It’s just not like any other Russian dressing. Ditto their French. In fact, they offer both a bright orange French and a redder Sweet & Spicy French. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/39 "2014-11-19T21:37:12Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > a redder Sweet & Spicy French. I thought I could cook, but that is the only Russian that I have seen. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/40 "2014-11-19T22:26:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > A Reuben has meat and cheese. :dubious: No kidding? Seriously, what are you trying to say? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065.md?page=3)