# The perfect Reuben? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 19, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065 "2014-11-19T14:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/61 "2014-11-20T18:37:59Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Oh, if that’s what you’re wondering about, I could have told you that. I’ve never encountered a Reuben without a pale orange dressing. Now whether that’s Russian or Thousand Island or whatever exactly the difference is between them is up to debate (and I, honestly, think they’re interchangeable, especially given that one place’s Russian is another’s Thousand Island), but it’s never that sickly sweet Wishbone crap. I have no idea where Wishbone got its idea for Russian dressing from, but it’s way outside the norm. Just to clarify, when I said in the OP the Schnelli Deli used a “Russian-style” dressing on my Platonic Ideal of a Reuben, I assumed it was Russian style because it was dark red-orange in color, so I thought of the old Wishbone Russian-style dressing of my youth, that used to be that color. But I’m not saying they actually used Wishbone Russian-style dressing; I don’t know what it was exactly. As mentioned I asked the owner once and he wouldn’t tell me what he used, only that he imported it from New York. So I had thought maybe that’s what Real New York delis use. Hence my “NOOOO” reaction on seeing the pic of the Carnegie Reuben with what I think of as Thousand-Island dressing. As for what the Schnelli actually used, I remember from 30 years ago that it was somewhat sweet and tomatoey and tangy. So it could be in the neighborhood of the dark Russian-style dressing recipes I found and linked to a few posts ago. The pale orange stuff with pickle relish is okay, but IMO pales (heh) in comparison to the stuff used on the Schnelli Reuben. And no, it’s not the nostalgia of memory, it was better, dammit! If I had a time machine set to go back 30 years the first thing I would do is get a Schnelli Reuben. Then, as a distant second I might find my younger self and recommend some good stock tips. ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2014, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/62 "2014-11-22T23:48:04Z")
Here’s a good old fashioned recipe for Russian dressing: Combine and shake well 8 oz. tomato sauce 1 cup of oil 1/2 cup of vinegar 1 TB. of A-1 or Worcestershire sauce 1 TB. of sugar 2 tsp. of salt 1/2 tsp. each of paprika, dry mustard, and garlic powder 1 tsp. grated onion Thousand Island is pinker and sweeter, with pickle relish. 7 Seas Catalina dressing is another form of Russian dressing. (haven’t thought of that one in years!) ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/63 "2014-11-23T00:08:21Z")
[boring Reuben history] 1925 - Another version is Reuben Kulakofsky (1873-1960), a wholesale grocer in Omaha, Nebraska and co-owner of Central Market in Omaha from 1900 to 1943, created the Reuben Sandwich. Kulakofsky belonged to a weekly poker group whose members apparently enjoyed fixing their own sandwiches every bit as much as they enjoyed playing poker. One of the players, Charles Schimmel, owner of the Blackstone Hotel in Omaha, put the Reuben Sandwich on the hotel menu.[/boring Reuben history] This Reuben Sandwich, exactly as it was served in the Blackstone Hotel dining room and coffee shop (now serving as office space for the Keiwitt Construction Co) is being served at [The Dundee Dell](http://www.dundeedell.com/) I had one for lunch Thursday. This place is also known for the largest collection of single malt scotch in the world. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/64 "2014-11-23T00:32:02Z")
Three Graces is tasty. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/65 "2014-11-23T02:51:02Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > Here’s a good old fashioned recipe for Russian dressing: Combine and shake well > > 8 oz. tomato sauce > 1 cup of oil > 1/2 cup of vinegar > 1 TB. of A-1 or Worcestershire sauce > 1 TB. of sugar > 2 tsp. of salt > 1/2 tsp. each of paprika, dry mustard, and garlic powder > 1 tsp. grated onion > > Thousand Island is pinker and sweeter, with pickle relish. > > 7 Seas Catalina dressing is another form of Russian dressing. (haven’t thought of that one in years!) Yeah, those are outside the norm of what I would call a standard Russian dressing. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/66 "2014-11-23T03:07:28Z")
I guess a better question is how and where did that sweet red tomato-based dressing become “Russian dressing.” All the old recipes for Russian dressing I’ve found seem to be either mayo-based or yogurt/sour-cream based. And the current understanding, at least in the context of a Reuben sandwich and New York deli, tends to be a creamy, orange-pink dressing made with mayo and tomato. How did that other style of “Russian dressing” come to be? All that Wikipedia has is that this is a variation called “red Russian dressing,” but provides no further context for it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/67 "2014-11-23T03:21:38Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I guess a better question is how and where did that sweet red tomato-based dressing become “Russian dressing.” All the old recipes for Russian dressing I’ve found seem to be either mayo-based or yogurt/sour-cream based. And the current understanding, at least in the context of a Reuben sandwich and New York deli, tends to be a creamy, orange-pink dressing made with mayo and tomato. How did that other style of “Russian dressing” come to be? All that Wikipedia has is that this is a variation called “red Russian dressing,” but provides no further context for it. I think history is repeating itself. To me, Italian dressing a mixture of oil and vinegar with spices added. But if you look at the dressing aisle in a supermarket, you’ll see a bunch of dressings labeled as [“creamy Italian”](https://www.google.com/search?q=creamy+italian+dressing&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=h1FxVL-SK-LCsAT6yYDYBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg). It would not surprise me if within twenty years, creamy Italian dressing will be considered the normal Italian dressing and what we now call Italian dressing will have to be retronymed. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/68 "2014-11-23T03:32:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think history is repeating itself. To me, Italian dressing a mixture of oil and vinegar with spices added. But if you look at the dressing aisle in a supermarket, you’ll see a bunch of dressings labeled as [“creamy Italian”](https://www.google.com/search?q=creamy+italian+dressing&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=h1FxVL-SK-LCsAT6yYDYBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg). It would not surprise me if within twenty years, creamy Italian dressing will be considered the normal Italian dressing and what we now call Italian dressing will have to be retronymed. Whoa. I guess I haven’t been down the salad dressing aisle in awhile. That is not what I think of as “Italian dressing,” either. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065/69 "2014-11-23T03:39:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think history is repeating itself. To me, Italian dressing a mixture of oil and vinegar with spices added. But if you look at the dressing aisle in a supermarket, you’ll see a bunch of dressings labeled as [“creamy Italian”](https://www.google.com/search?q=creamy+italian+dressing&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=h1FxVL-SK-LCsAT6yYDYBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg). It would not surprise me if within twenty years, creamy Italian dressing will be considered the normal Italian dressing and what we now call Italian dressing will have to be retronymed. “As Chaucer is, so shall Dryden be.” -Alexander Pope [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perfect-reuben/705065.md?page=3)