# The period on signs in the 1800s **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 20, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810 "2010-08-20T01:18:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C.Montgomery_Burns)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/1 "2010-08-20T01:18:35Z")
Why did signs (and news headlines) from the late 1800s always put a period at the end? The livery stable shown here [www.shorpy.com/node/5974](http://www.shorpy.com/node/5974) would be an example. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/2 "2010-08-20T01:24:49Z")
It wouldn’t make sense at the beginning. Dang, oh well, Mods, cite me. But I’m not the one feeding the straight lines. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/3 "2010-08-20T03:46:57Z")
I remember seeing a talk on the history of advertising, and the presenter (Stan Freberg, I think) pointed out the first ad with a period at the end of the headline. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/4 "2010-08-20T05:28:43Z")
And check out the lack of kerning in the word “ALWAYS,” near the top. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/5 "2010-08-20T06:14:51Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And check out the lack of kerning in the word “ALWAYS,” near the top. Ah, you are an artist. It could be a cheap cut and paste job, or just a replication of the results from an old metal type setting system that had no special kerning slugs. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/6 "2010-08-20T06:34:35Z")
WTF is kerning? ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/7 "2010-08-20T06:38:19Z")
[The process of adjusting white spacing in a proportional font.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerning) ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/8 "2010-08-20T06:39:38Z")
Ah, okay. Now that I know what it is I can see it. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/9 "2010-08-20T13:06:46Z")
> [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](#): > > Why did signs (and news headlines) from the late 1800s always put a period at the end? The livery stable shown here [www.shorpy.com/node/5974](http://www.shorpy.com/node/5974) would be an example. Perhaps because they are period pieces. . .😃 Often we seek reason in events, when human error is the cause. It is most likely that these signs are errors, with over-zealous use of punctuation. It is probably the equivalent of the grocer’s apostrophe - the unnecessary use of the apostrophe in handwritten signs, such as “APPLE’S AND PEAR’S”. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/10 "2010-08-20T13:30:14Z")
That’s the way they did it then. Why no periods now? Because that’s the way it’s done now. ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/11 "2010-08-20T13:48:46Z")
Iirc the period denotes position. It’s the 1853rd year, hence 1853. I’ll see if I can dig up a quote. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/12 "2010-08-20T13:52:40Z")
Yeah, and why did everyone wear suits and hats? And what’s with all the horses everywhere? And holy crap, did they like facial hair in those days or what? ---
**Author:** ![GHO57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df788c/32.png) [@GHO57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GHO57)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/13 "2010-08-20T14:01:03Z")
Ah… it’s a German thing; apparently “In German, the dot after a number marks an ordinal, e.g.: 1. = 1st, 2. = 2nd etc.” my bad… guess my recollection isn’t as good as I remember it to be. Damn those Germanic languages and their slight differences. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/14 "2010-08-20T16:16:53Z")
When I was a youngster, Popular Mechanics never used periods at the end of captions Why ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/15 "2010-08-20T16:26:10Z")
> [@C.Montgomery\_Burns](#): > > Why did signs (and news headlines) from the late 1800s always put a period at the end? The livery stable shown here [www.shorpy.com/node/5974](http://www.shorpy.com/node/5974) would be an example. I’ll bet that “always” is an exaggeration. It would be more interesting to know in what circumstances periods were used and in what time period and in what parts of the country and when it ended and in what order and where it lasted as an anachronism and everything else. Why would that be interesting? Because now the the answer is pretty much that it was the style then and later the style changed. That’s not interesting. The rest is such hard work for so little reward that I’m sure an academic historian has made it a specialty. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/16 "2010-08-20T16:36:52Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Ah, okay. Now that I know what it is I can see it. …and you always will. You poor thing. I think there should be a warning akin to linking to TVTropes or PDFs when someone defines of kerning. Spoiler box at the least. We’ve lost too many great people to asylums over the years. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/17 "2010-08-20T17:29:10Z")
Not just signs. The Nameplate of **The New York Times** used to end with a period: > [@](#): > > **The New York Times.** It took a long time to get rid of it (it was there until 1967 (!)): [http://www.typophile.com/node/19590](http://www.typophile.com/node/19590) [http://buildinternet.com/2009/12/a-handful-of-fascinating-typography-tidbits/](http://buildinternet.com/2009/12/a-handful-of-fascinating-typography-tidbits/) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/18 "2010-08-20T22:29:16Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > > [@Rilchiam](#): > > > > Ah, okay. Now that I know what it is I can see it. > > …and you always will. You poor thing. > > I think there should be a warning akin to linking to TVTropes or PDFs when someone defines of kerning. Spoiler box at the least. We’ve lost too many great people to asylums over the years. For several years, I did kerning full-time for a type manufacturer. You know, when you set type to “metrics” or “optical,” someone has to sit there and actually make those decisions for every character pair in a font. After a while you find yourself kerning a row of cars or trees. And yes, I wish I could totally destroy that part of my brain. ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/19 "2010-08-21T00:03:46Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And check out the lack of kerning in the word “ALWAYS,” near the top. My printing experience doesn’t involve movable type, but was it even possible to kern a W next to an A (not to mention the L and the Y)? If each character was on a square block, how could you make the edges overlap as they do on a computer with a proportional font? ```auto ALWAYS ``` That’s one of those weird words. If you’re seeing the above code in Courier, you can see the lack of kerning between the A and the Y…you don’t see it so much between the W and the A because the W is almost square. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2010, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810/20 "2010-08-21T00:45:41Z")
> [@jasonh300](#): > > > [@panache45](#): > > > > And check out the lack of kerning in the word “ALWAYS,” near the top. > > My printing experience doesn’t involve movable type, but was it even possible to kern a W next to an A (not to mention the L and the Y)? If each character was on a square block, how could you make the edges overlap as they do on a computer with a proportional font? > > ```auto > > ALWAYS > > ``` > > That’s one of those weird words. If you’re seeing the above code in Courier, you can see the lack of kerning between the A and the Y…you don’t see it so much between the W and the A because the W is almost square. They made metal slugs in different forms with notches in the corners. So A would have a notch in the top left corner, and the W would have a notch in the bottom right corner, and the slugs would fit together with an overlap. I think some type sets had some double character slugs for common combinations, like capital T and lower case a, e, o, and u. Of course the slugs weren’t squares, they were all different widths, so they were proportional. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-period-on-signs-in-the-1800s/550810.md?page=2)