# The perverse motivation of back-in parkers? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793 "2015-04-04T10:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/181 "2015-04-07T19:15:40Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > you can back your car up, but it’s harder to do so with nearly as much precision. Wrong. While backing, your turn radius is significantly smaller than when you’re driving nose first. Also, properly adjusted side mirrors give you sub-inch control of the clearance between you car’s sides and the neighboring cars’ sides. If you’re backing, that is. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > So you can pull into a parking you’re backing out into a much larger space. Which is occasionally occupied by cars whose drivers may or may not be oblivious to you car sticking halfway out from the parking space > [@RTFirefly](#): > > if you’re driving, how much nearer is your head to your front bumper than to your rear bumper? Who cares? What matters is how near are other cars (and pedestrians) to said bumper, and how well can you estimate that distance? A trained driver should have just as much control over where their rear bumper is as where their front bumper is. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/182 "2015-04-07T19:40:31Z")
It’s safer for me to to back into a space using side mirrors immediately upon passing it rather than to back into traffic blindly. It’s much easier for me to fit my vehicle into spaces when backing due to the tighter turning radius. Backing in saves me from having to do the forward-back-forward-back-forward to get into tight spaces. Entering either forward or backward requires me to swing wide, so tough-titty for any poor sod who can’t figure out what my signal light is indicating. In a parking lot, regardless of an initial swing, if I am signalling right, I am turning right, and if I am signalling left, I am turning left. Deal with it – it’s a parking lot, so odd’s are that I’m parking, duh, so stay back. Backing into a 90 degree angle space is really no different than parallel parking. You wouldn’t drive up the ass of someone backing into a parallel space would you? Well, maybe you would, but that’s you causing your own problem. Simple, huh? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/183 "2015-04-07T20:19:01Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > Wrong. While backing, your turn radius is significantly smaller than when you’re driving nose first. Also, properly adjusted side mirrors give you sub-inch control of the clearance between you car’s sides and the neighboring cars’ sides. If you’re backing, that is. Well then, it must be that the people who back into parking spaces are much worse drivers, as a group, than those of us who pull in front first. Because we still have to wait on you, where we don’t have to wait on people who pull in nose-first, even though you claim the _car_ allows you to back up just as accurately and easily as going forward. So it must be the drivers, then. > [@](#): > > Which is occasionally occupied by cars whose drivers may or may not be oblivious to you car sticking halfway out from the parking space This is a real, nontrivial problem? Cars at parking-lot or -garage speeds being so oblivious to the presence of a car with its backup lights on, sticking halfway into their lane that they run into it? > [@](#): > > Who cares? What matters is how near are other cars (and pedestrians) to said bumper, and how well can you estimate that distance? The argument has been made that you should go **out** of a parking space nose-first because you can see cars in the traffic lane sooner. If you agree that that argument is nonsense, I’m OK with that. > [@](#): > > A trained driver should have just as much control over where their rear bumper is as where their front bumper is. Exactly! Thanks for making my point for me. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/184 "2015-04-07T20:24:54Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > It’s safer for me to to back into a space using side mirrors immediately upon passing it rather than to back into traffic blindly. Who would argue with that? That’s freakin’ obvious. You should be able to back into a parking space safely, _period._ The risk, such as it is, is presumably when exiting the space. > [@](#): > > It’s much easier for me to fit my vehicle into spaces when backing due to the tighter turning radius. Backing in saves me from having to do the forward-back-forward-back-forward to get into tight spaces. Goody for you. But why do I (and plenty of others in this thread) find themselves routinely waiting for people backing into spaces, but not for people going in nose-first? Guess the rest of the people backing in must be crappy drivers, unlike you. So congratulations on being you. > [@](#): > > Entering either forward or backward requires me to swing wide, so tough-titty for any poor sod who can’t figure out what my signal light is indicating. In a parking lot, regardless of an initial swing, if I am signalling right, I am turning right, and if I am signalling left, I am turning left. Deal with it – it’s a parking lot, so odd’s are that I’m parking, duh, so stay back. Backing into a 90 degree angle space is really no different than parallel parking. You wouldn’t drive up the ass of someone backing into a parallel space would you? Well, maybe you would, but that’s you causing your own problem. Simple, huh? You can go into the details all you want of why it **should** be just as quick and easy to back into a space as to go in nose-first, but it still comes down to: we have to wait for drivers backing in, a lot more than we have to wait for drivers going in nose-first. I’m glad you’re so good at it, but you’re not particularly representative of your class, AFAICT. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/185 "2015-04-07T21:04:52Z")
Hey, remember the _South Park_ episode where everyone started shoving food up their asses and defecating out of their mouths? Wonder what made me think of that. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/186 "2015-04-07T21:21:32Z")
The thing is, there is a 7.7 foot difference between the Muffin Mobile’s turning circle and a Firefly’s turning circle. You wait for larger vehicles such a mine to maneuver, and I wait behind smaller vehicles that get stuck in bad road conditions. And of course you don’t wait for me to exit a space, whereas I wait for you to exit a space. C’est la vie. Nothing worth getting fussed over. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/187 "2015-04-07T21:37:38Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do you backers-in back into your driveways as well? Would the amount of traffic on the street coming behind you influence the choice? My current parking space at home (apt. complex) doesn’t allow a turning radius to back in once I enter the garage without doing a 5-point turn, so it’s not worth it. But when I lived in a house, I always always backed into my driveway. I actually did it more often in my driveway than I did in parking lots (which I frequent rarely, actually; most of my driving out involves parallel parking–which usually involves backing up). ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/188 "2015-04-07T23:12:15Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But why do I (and plenty of others in this thread) find themselves routinely waiting for people backing into spaces, but not for people going in nose-first? > …it still comes down to: we have to wait for drivers backing in, a lot more than we have to wait for drivers going in nose-first. You have said that a few times. You forgot to remember the time you wait for people to back back out of said spaces, inching out while watching carefully for pedestrians, shopping carts, other cars leaving spaces, other cars driving past, etc. that they would clearly see if pulling forward. I can’t tell you how much time I’ve lost waiting for backer-outers. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2015, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/189 "2015-04-07T23:27:46Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > But why do I (and plenty of others in this thread) find themselves routinely waiting for people backing into spaces, but not for people going in nose-first? Because you’re a giant baby with no ability to recognize that things happen even when you can’t see them. This is connected to why you think it’s a good idea to drive into places you can’t see – there isn’t anything coming when you back out of a parking space, because you can’t see it! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/190 "2015-04-08T00:51:34Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > You have said that a few times. You forgot to remember the time you wait for people to back back out of said spaces, inching out while watching carefully for pedestrians, shopping carts, other cars leaving spaces, other cars driving past, etc. that they would clearly see if pulling forward. Then you weren’t tenacious enough to read the last paragraph of post 180, which is one thing - but hell, you weren’t even tenacious enough to read the\* first\* line of post 179. > [@](#): > > I can’t tell you how much time I’ve lost waiting for backer-outers. Really? If they’re less than halfway out, there’s usually room to scoot around them. And once they’re that far out, they generally pull the rest of the way out pretty quickly, unless there are other vehicles, pedestrians, etc. in the way as well, in which case the backer-outer isn’t the real problem, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/191 "2015-04-08T01:14:04Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > Because you’re a giant baby with no ability to recognize that things happen even when you can’t see them. This is connected to why you think it’s a good idea to drive into places you can’t see – there isn’t anything coming when you back out of a parking space, because you can’t see it! You realize, of course, that this makes no sense at all. _Presumably_ (and I use this word meaningfully rather than rhetorically due to the lack of clarity of your post) you’re referring to when I back out of a parking space, and implying that **because** I back out of parking spaces, I can’t see what I’m backing out into. Now by actual measurement, my car is roughly 186 inches long. Half of 186 is 93. Also per the tape measure, 93 inches back from the nose of the car is about where my head is, if I’m in normal driving posture. I have no better or worse visibility backing up out of a parking space than I do pulling out nose-first. Either way, I have to move the leading end of the car, be it front or rear, the same distance into the lane in order to obtain the same field of vision. So while at first I have limited vision of what I’m backing out into, it’s got nothing to do with the fact that I’m _backing_ out, rather than pulling out nose-first. As I said back in post 179, YCMV, and I’d love to know how typical (or atypical) the Accord is in this respect. However, you were talking about me, and trying to make it personal. And in your misguided attempt to do so, you’re **factually wrong**. But thanks for playing. Maybe some other time. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/192 "2015-04-08T01:30:45Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > If they’re less than halfway out, there’s usually room to scoot around them. That is a risk that I am not willing to take, and I would prefer if people do not take with me. ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/193 "2015-04-08T01:31:51Z")
[quote=“RTFirefly, post:190, topic:716793”] Then you weren’t tenacious enough to read the last paragraph of post 180, which is one thing - but hell, you weren’t even tenacious enough to read the\* first\* line of post 179. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > While I frequently have to wait while a car backs _into_ a space, I rarely have to wait more than a fraction of that time while someone backs _out_. Actually, I did read it. I saw that you don’t seem to remember any wasted time waiting, but surely it happens. I sincerely doubt that you wait longer for cars to back in than to back out. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Really? If they’re less than halfway out, there’s usually room to scoot around them. And once they’re that far out, they generally pull the rest of the way out pretty quickly, unless there are other vehicles, pedestrians, etc. in the way as well, in which case the backer-outer isn’t the real problem, now is it? You can never be 100% sure, or even as sure as a forward driver, no matter what stage you’re in of backing out. It’s the other vehicles, pedestrians, etc. in the way that determine how fast you should pull out. The backer-outer _is_ the problem because it takes him longer to safely assess his circumstances. It’s always easier to see your surroundings when moving forward and actually looking directly at what you’re driving into than using 3 mirrors, the backup camera if you have one, and turning around. by the time you’ve determined grandma is past on the left, there could be a kid coming up on the right. So, knowing that, do you back out in one motion, as soon as you’re out one foot? Because that is scary as hell. Or do you go out a little at a time? It’s unclear. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > Once you’ve ascertained that it’s safe to back out, you just do it in one motion. (And while you’re still ascertaining that, you aren’t so far out that people can’t get by you, so you’re not holding anyone up.) > [@RTFirefly](#): > > I pull out gradually, a foot at a time. When I’ve pulled out an entire foot, (a) nobody’s gonna hit my rear end unless they’re speeding right along the edge of the other parked cars, and (b) they can see a car with its backup lights on, with its rear end sticking out by a foot. So the part about “traffic which…won’t expect them” is FALSE. > > But until I can do that, _I’m not holding up anyone_, because there’s plenty of room to get around me. The time-consuming part of backing _out_ of a parking space takes place while I’m mostly in the parking space, with room to get around me. Am I supposed to just scoot around anyone less than halfway out, without considering the conditions? At what point is it my obligation, as the moving vehicle in the traffic lane, to yield to you and let you go? Once you’re a foot into my lane? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/194 "2015-04-08T01:46:36Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > Am I supposed to just scoot around anyone less than halfway out, without considering the conditions? That would explain how RTFirefly waits less for cars backing out than cars backing in. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/195 "2015-04-08T01:54:17Z")
> [@tenacious\_j](#): > > Am I supposed to just scoot around anyone less than halfway out, without considering the conditions? At what point is it my obligation, as the moving vehicle in the traffic lane, to yield to you and let you go? Once you’re a foot into my lane? I would say the safest thing is to stop once you see someone coming out. Remember, if you can’t see the driver, _he can’t see you._ ---
**Author:** ![tenacious\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/439d5e/32.png) [@tenacious\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tenacious_j)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/196 "2015-04-08T01:56:51Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I would say the safest thing is to stop once you see someone coming out. > > Remember, if you can’t see the driver, _he can’t see you._ That’s always been my motto, but I have never knowingly driven in Firefly’s neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/197 "2015-04-08T03:27:02Z")
Backing will always be harder then going forward, whichever way you do it. To me it’s a matter of opportunity: if there’s no traffic to contend with, I get the backing done first so I don’t have to do it later, when there might be more traffic. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/198 "2015-04-08T03:42:35Z")
I just cannot understand what is up with those assholes who just stop in the street and sit there waiting for oncoming traffic to clear before they make a left turn. Or the goddam semis that feel the need to block the whole street so they can back their trailer into a loading dock. Nevermind the jerks who blow past me in the left lane when they can clearly see I am trying to move over so I can pass old Slugbait in front of me. Or the twits that turn left in front of me, ride my rear bumper or cannot figure out that it is clear and turning right on a red is a _good_ think. Don’t get me started on those fucking pedestrians who really need to pick it up a notch and get the hell through the crosswalk so I can go. The whole country is full of lowlife scum, and they need to get out of my way and stop being such a nuisance. ---
**Author:** ![Haberdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Haberdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Haberdash)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/199 "2015-04-08T13:52:04Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > That would explain how RTFirefly waits less for cars backing out than cars backing in. I picture him shouting “waa-hoo” and pressing his horn that plays the first four bars of Dixie before shooting backwards out of his space at 40 mph, eyes closed and Big Gulp splashing everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![CoastalMaineiac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@CoastalMaineiac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoastalMaineiac)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/200 "2015-04-08T20:37:00Z")
I always back in to my driveway. When I’m ready to leave again, the gap in traffic I need is much smaller than it would be if I had to back out. I learned to drive in an extended cab, full-sized pickup truck. That thing was long and wide; it was nearly impossible to pull it into a tight space without reversing and making several adjustments, and then you’d have the ass end of the truck hanging out in traffic. Backing it in was much quicker, and I was able to back the rear wheels to the curb, so that no part of the truck was sticking out from the space. Trust me when I say you would have been waiting a lot longer for me if I had chosen not to back in. As to the safety aspect, it’s quite simple. There was a hell of a lot more truck behind me than there was in front of me. If I had to reverse out into traffic, there’s a whole lot of truck already in traffic before I could even get a view. I don’t drive such a big behemoth any more, but those habits have stuck with me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=11)