# The perverse motivation of back-in parkers? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793 "2015-04-04T10:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/241 "2015-06-02T15:08:04Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Good point. If there’s research data I’d like to see it. Me too. And also, _how much_ safer? If the difference is two fender-benders per million instances of leaving a parking space, then :shrug: . ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/242 "2015-06-02T15:18:12Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Could you come here and teach classes on proper backing-in technique to the people who park in my garage? > > Seriously, I **never** see any of them back in with this degree of smoothness.Well, sure, if the parking space is on your left, you’re going to have to cut across the oncoming lane. But if you’re parking in a space on your right, not really. The key thing is to keep your left front corner as close as possible to the car in the space to the left of the one you’re pulling into, until you straighten out at the last moment. One smooth motion and you’re in. > > (Sure, if there’s no oncoming traffic, I’ll swing into the left lane a tad just to improve the angle, but if I can’t do that, I’m still good.) Why yes, I could give them lessons; I’ll bring along my own cattle prod and everything. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/243 "2015-06-02T22:05:16Z")
> [@kaltkalt](#): > > No big trucks or monster SUVs are involved here. > > There’s no way the most skilled driver in the world can back in faster than someone can park straight in. It takes one whole extra move. Maybe it won’t take them 30 seconds, but it takes longer no question about it. Not opinion. It’s all a conspiracy; the Universe and its minions are out to drive you insane by making you wait an extra 30 seconds for someone else to park. Seriously? If this is what you have to bitch about, feel lucky, quit yer bitchin’ and get a life. Douche. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/244 "2015-06-02T23:39:37Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Yeah, one kind of wait annoys me, and and another equally long wait in an essentially identical situation mysteriously doesn’t bother me at all. > > Yeah, that explains everything, Einstein. > You’re an adult (I think); you’re supposed to figure it out for yourself. Have fun. I don’t see any reason for sarcasm. This kind of irrational inconsistency is a hallmark of the faulty way our brains and memories work. It’s absolutely typical of human behavior and it explains a lot about the strange ways in which humans behave. Unless we are meticulously measuring and recording data, we are very bad at remembering things properly and judging our reactions dispassionately. We are extremely unreliable in reporting our own experiences. If someone tells you “you are remembering things wrong,” even if he or she has never met you before and has not observed the situation you’re describing, it’s way more likely than not that he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/245 "2015-06-03T04:57:41Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > It’s all a conspiracy; the Universe and its minions are out to drive you insane by making you wait an extra 30 seconds for someone else to park. > > Seriously? If this is what you have to bitch about, feel lucky, quit yer bitchin’ and get a life. > Douche. What’s your point? I agree with the OP’s quote that you included. Do you seriously think a person can back into a spot faster than one can pull in? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/246 "2015-06-03T10:10:26Z")
> [@Haberdash](#): > > You shouldn’t engage in unexpected behaviors like pulling across into a space that someone is pulling into normally. You would definitely be at fault if this resulted in an accident. They’re fully justified in being pissed off. So would the other driver. You are responsible to use reasonable care and look where you are going in a parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/247 "2015-06-03T10:26:25Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > What’s your point? I agree with the OP’s quote that you included. Do you seriously think a person can back into a spot faster than one can pull in? The courier services I used to drive for required backing in when possible. Yes, I could. It does make it easier to have mirrors on both sides rather than using the inside rearview or turning around to look back. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2015, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/248 "2015-06-03T12:22:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The courier services I used to drive for required backing in when possible. Yes, I could. Could what? Back into a spot efficiently and effectively? Or you could back into a parking spot faster than you could pull into that same spot? If the former, we’re not talking about that. If you’re claiming the latter, then you’re likely making wasted moves while pulling in. I think every driver, without exception, is able to pull in faster than back in to a given parking space. Although if it’s a 30 second difference, something is very wrong with the backing up skills. It should take about 5-10 seconds longer to back into a space than to pull in. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/249 "2015-06-04T00:18:11Z")
> [@kaltkalt](#): > > There’s no way the most skilled driver in the world can back in faster than someone can park straight in. It takes one whole extra move. Maybe it won’t take them 30 seconds, but it takes longer no question about it. Not opinion. I think you’re severely underestimating how quickly a talented driver can get into a parking space, to say nothing of the “most skilled driver in the world.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3BGkOKVMUU ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/250 "2015-06-04T03:03:53Z")
Cool videos. For the back in parker, nosing in would still be faster. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/251 "2015-06-04T18:03:50Z")
Well - here’s the guidance in [Ireland](http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Information_Sheets/Workplace_Transport_Safety_Reversing_Vehicles.pdf): > [@](#): > > Where possible, reverse into parking spaces rather than out of them. Also - apparently in the UK, reverse parking is safer AND saves you [money](http://www.motors.co.uk/news/statistics/reverse-parking-saves-%C2%A3100-a-year-on-fuel-costs): > [@](#): > > According to the Institute of Advanced Motorists, backing in rather than parking nose-first will have you £2 a week. The reasoning runs like this: a car takes, on average, a minute and a half for the engine to warm. During the first seconds after starting, it uses 20-25 times more fuel. The best and quickest way to warm it is to drive at normal speeds up to 30mph. . . . . But aside from savings, backing in and driving out brings safety benefits. And, backing in is easier than some drivers believe, once they’ve learned the knack. And here’s why finding good data in the US is [hard](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=31&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhtsa.gov%2FDOT%2FNHTSA%2FVehicle%2520Safety%2FStudies%2520%26%2520Reports%2FAssociated%2520Files%2FBackoverAvoidanceTechStudy.pdf&ei=jYxwVaDXDMbAsAWqg4PgBw&usg=AFQjCNECRnNaMxFL1kltordFdWnl9n49ag&sig2=SWPPJ_RE7GagEXgamOvmcA): > [@](#): > > There is no U.S. Government data system designed specifically for collecting data on backover crashes. This is primarily true because many backover crashes occur on private parking areas, and these are not subject to current government reporting systems. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/252 "2015-06-04T19:35:27Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > Well - here’s the guidance in [Ireland](http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Information_Sheets/Workplace_Transport_Safety_Reversing_Vehicles.pdf): > > Also - apparently in the UK, reverse parking is safer AND saves you [money](http://www.motors.co.uk/news/statistics/reverse-parking-saves-%C2%A3100-a-year-on-fuel-costs): > > And here’s why finding good data in the US is [hard](http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=31&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAOB4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhtsa.gov%2FDOT%2FNHTSA%2FVehicle%2520Safety%2FStudies%2520%26%2520Reports%2FAssociated%2520Files%2FBackoverAvoidanceTechStudy.pdf&ei=jYxwVaDXDMbAsAWqg4PgBw&usg=AFQjCNECRnNaMxFL1kltordFdWnl9n49ag&sig2=SWPPJ_RE7GagEXgamOvmcA): But again, assertions with no statistics to back them up. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/253 "2015-06-04T19:54:03Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > But again, assertions with no statistics to back them up. No stats but [something to consider.](https://www.insurancehotline.com/fault-determination-in-a-parking-lot-accident/) > [@](#): > > One of the most common accidents to occur in a parking lot is one in which a driver is backing out of a space and strikes another vehicle, whether moving or parked. **A driver backing out of a parking space will usually be found at fault for an accident** with one exception. In a case where two cars are backing out at the same time and strike each other, fault in the accident is likely to be shared. [There is this.](http://www.safety.com/articles/backing-dangers) > [@](#): > > About 99 percent of the time drivers are behind the wheel, they are moving forward. But it’s the rest of the time --\*\* that tiny 1 percent when they are backing up\*\* – when a disproportionate number of collisions take place. In fact, the **National Safety Council estimates that 25 percent of accidents can be blamed on poor backing techniques.** ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2015, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/254 "2015-06-04T23:12:01Z")
Sudden flash of inspiration! Inspired by the Duggar scandal, and by the nearby Pit thread about them, it suddenly occurs to me: _When drivers back into parking spaces, the car is the victim, and should therefore be blamed and shamed!_ So when people back in, I blame their cars. I pray for them to forgive their drivers, and I pray for them to stop defrauding their drivers into temptation with immodest visions of how easy it will soon be to drive forward out of the space. May the Satanic demons be driven (heh) from their metallic souls, may their cylinders be cleansed, and may their tailpipes be chaste. And I pray for the drivers to be strong against temptation, and be forgiven when they falter. Shame on those cars! ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/255 "2015-06-05T05:01:50Z")
You really ought to be more forgiving, **Senegoid**. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/256 "2015-06-05T18:09:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > No stats but [something to consider.](https://www.insurancehotline.com/fault-determination-in-a-parking-lot-accident/) > [There is this.](http://www.safety.com/articles/backing-dangers) The next paragraph said, “A study by the National Highway Traffic and Safety Administration shows back-over accidents kill 90 people each year.” So 25% of the accidents, but less than 1/1000 of the fatalities. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/257 "2015-06-05T18:11:18Z")
[quote=“commasense, post:249, topic:716793”] I think you’re severely underestimating how quickly a talented driver can get into a parking space, to say nothing of the “most skilled driver in the world.” [/QUOTE] I would note that neither of these stunt drivers is parking in a situation that comes close to duplicating actual road or garage conditions. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2015, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/258 "2015-06-05T18:20:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t see any reason for sarcasm. This kind of irrational inconsistency is a hallmark of the faulty way our brains and memories work. I disagree. Certainly memory can be faulty, but I think you’d have to bring a cite to the table to justify its application to this example. > [@](#): > > If someone tells you “you are remembering things wrong,” even if he or she has never met you before and has not observed the situation you’re describing, it’s way more likely than not that he’s right. Now that’s just total nonsense. You’re in effect going way beyond “eyewitness testimony is way less reliable than we treat it in, say, our legal system” (which is all too true), and jumping to “eyewitness testimony is less reliable than the testimony of some random person who wasn’t there and is unfamiliar with the situation.” That’s simply crazy. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/259 "2015-06-08T18:13:22Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I would note that neither of these stunt drivers is parking in a situation that comes close to duplicating actual road or garage conditions. Maybe not where _you_ live. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/260 "2015-06-09T00:40:08Z")
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas baby. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=14)