# The perverse motivation of back-in parkers? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 4, 2015, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793 "2015-04-04T10:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/121 "2015-04-06T02:00:25Z")
Making up shit is a poor way to argue **Haberdash**. “Where appropriate” is a big caveat. Agreed that the data only shows that backing up is associated with greater risks; it does not inform when the backing up is riskiest. Returning to a comment made by **Bullit** : > [@](#): > > if you choose to pull in then you either > (a) don’t have the skill needed to back in … Interestingly implicit in that comment is that it is more difficult to back in … which is why it requires greater skill. And I would agree. Backing into a narrow space from an orthoganal position, with cars waiting on you, is a skill that is more difficult than backing out into a larger space. I would however acknowledge that that fact can be used to argue both sides. Of course one can argue that a mistake is more likely to happen when executing something that is more difficult to do. But the reality might be that backing out accidents happen to some degree because there is so little skill involved that we are not fully attending to the activity and are also distracted thinking about our next task; a greater degree of difficulty might paradoxically decrease the actual risk. Do you backers-in back into your driveways as well? Would the amount of traffic on the street coming behind you influence the choice? ---
**Author:** ![Leoj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/58956e/32.png) [@Leoj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leoj)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/122 "2015-04-06T02:22:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do you backers-in back into your driveways as well? Would the amount of traffic on the street coming behind you influence the choice? When I have to park a work truck in a driveway I almost always back in, especially if the street has heavy traffic. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/123 "2015-04-06T02:33:31Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do you backers-in back into your driveways as well? Would the amount of traffic on the street coming behind you influence the choice? I always back into my driveway. If there is traffic on the street, I pull over and wait for it to pass before I begin to enter my drive. ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/124 "2015-04-06T02:34:39Z")
So the OP is annoyed having to wait for people to back into a parking space, but is ok with having to wait while people back out into traffic? ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/125 "2015-04-06T02:36:00Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > > [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > > > It would be nice to find the raw data, but I would strongly suspect that the overwhelming majority of the accidents of backward moving vehicles were vehicles backing out of their parking place (or driveway). > > > > Just because a vehicle is moving backwards does not mean it is backing into a parking place. Nearly everyone who pulls head-in a parking place will back out, **and that is where the accidents happen.** > > (My bolding) > > That’s easy to say, but where are the numbers to back this up? Well, if only 6% of drivers back-in, but nearly 45% of the rollover deaths occur while backing, unless back-in parking is unbelievably unsafe, the vast majority of these rollover deaths that occur while backing are happening while backing out, not in. We know that back-in parking is not unbelievably unsafe because nearly all of the safety professionals recommend back-in parking where appropriate. That is a whole lot stronger than the statistics that got us to > [@Doug\_K](#): > > … That leaves us with less than 6% of vehicles being responsible for nearly 45% of fatal rollovers… ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/126 "2015-04-06T02:38:19Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > That said Im not convinced by the statistics it is a safer method, every time, or even faster, overall. I bet if I put two equally skilled drivers, put them in the same exact skills, and asked one to back in and then pull out, and the other vice versa, 10 times, with $1000 on the line, the pull in and back out driver will win the money because it requires more skill and human calculation to back in between 2 parking lanes/vehicles than to back out where there only obstacles are pedestrians and other vehicles, the odds of which being in the path of the vehicle unknowingly are slim. I( would even go as far as to argue that even if it WAS safer to back in—pull out, since we are looking at overall value to society, the time lost to society would not be worth the microscopic safety edge, anyway. > > . Having read the whole thread, I simply don’t get it. Our parking lots - it is pretty much impossible to nose in to most carparks (unless TWO lots are empty - giving you space to swing around) More than half of our “Carpark roads” are one way Most of us can reverse in using one motion - which is much faster than reversing out into moving traffic - When you reverse out you mostly need two lanes to get out, same with nose in you need two lanes to swing wide enough to fit, if you back in, you can do both using one lane only. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/127 "2015-04-06T03:20:55Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Well, if only 6% of drivers back-in, but nearly 45% of the rollover deaths occur while backing, unless back-in parking is unbelievably unsafe, the vast majority of these rollover deaths that occur while backing are happening while backing out, not in. We know that back-in parking is not unbelievably unsafe because nearly all of the safety professionals recommend back-in parking where appropriate. No, the stat showed nearly 45% of rollover deaths occurred while moving forward, even though over 90% of cars leave spaces by moving backward. That’s assuming that most of the accidents happened while leaving parking spaces, which is probably not a safe assumption. But I’m not claiming that backing in is more dangerous. I’m saying that no one has shown any stats that support the idea nosing in and backing out is more dangerous. To show one way or the other would require knowing at least roughly how many times people backed out of parking spaces, how many times people nosed out, and how many times did each action result in an accident. It would also be useful to know if angled vs. perpendicular parking makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/128 "2015-04-06T03:45:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do you backers-in back into your driveways as well? Yes I do. > [@DSeid](#): > > Would the amount of traffic on the street coming behind you influence the choice? I live on a very quiet street. There’s hardly any traffic. Sometimes there is, and I signal and pull over, let the car pass, and then back in. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/129 "2015-04-06T03:52:01Z")
Do you do the same thing in the parking lot aisle, **Bullitt**? If not how do you reconcile the difference? Not arguing here … honestly curious. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/130 "2015-04-06T04:08:20Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > …Agreed that the data only shows that backing up is associated with greater risks; it does not inform when the backing up is riskiest… I don’t have access to data, but if we agree that backing up is the riskier activity, I can make a strong plausibility argument for why it’s generally safer to back into a parking space. The vast majority of hazards near a parking space come from the street/sidewalk. That’s where other cars and most pedestrians will be. There are very few hazards at the inside of the parking space. So if you back into the parking space, most of the backing up is into the empty space. Whereas if you drive headfirst into the parking space, most of the backing up is into the street and/or sidewalk. Even without “backing up is more dangerous” I can make a similar argument. In general, you have better visibility at the front of the car. And again, most of the things you want to be certain not to hit are on the street/sidewalk. If you back in, the front of the car always has a view of the street and sidewalk. You’re only blind spot is inside the parking space. I usually park head-in, unless I am parking in a space that might be hard to get out of. But the more I read this thread and think about it, the more I think I ought to change my habits, and back into parking spaces. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/131 "2015-04-06T04:09:33Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Do you do the same thing in the parking lot aisle, **Bullitt**? If not how do you reconcile the difference? > > Not arguing here … honestly curious. When backing in will block another car’s progress I often just pull in. Sometimes I signal and pull over and let the car pass. It depends on the situation. Yes, sometimes I end up blocking the other car for a few seconds while backing in. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/132 "2015-04-06T04:15:41Z")
Missed the edit window to say this: There are often times I’m driving in the aisle and have the right of way, but someone backs out of their spot and I have to stop, even though I had right of way. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/133 "2015-04-06T04:21:19Z")
I’ve made all the points I needed to make. There may or there may not be data to support which is safer, but I believe and have argued for why backing in is safer, to me. If others are not convinced, then so be it and we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I’ll continue to back in, and you’ll continue to nose in. If I inconvenience you for a few seconds, I do try not to, but also realize that when you back out of a spot and into the aisle, there are times when such people block those in the aisle who had right of way. You know, that might be a key point here: when I’m backing in and am in front of you, if I block your progress for a few seconds I had right of way anyway, not you. You are obliged to stop until I am out of your way. Keep in mind I do try my best to not inconvenience the other drivers out there. But alas, sometimes it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/134 "2015-04-06T05:37:51Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The time cost is either paid pulling in or pulling out. It’s a zero sum game. After backing into a typical parking space, like at a grocery store, when you pull out it’s MUCH easier to see and avoid any other cars or pedestrians that might be traversing the area. Conversely, as you back into the parking spot, it’s considerably less likely that someone will be walking in that little area between your back bumper and the wall or concrete block. Qualitatively I would say that backing-in and pulling out is significantly safer than pulling in and backing out. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/135 "2015-04-06T07:54:56Z")
I almost always back in. It’s easier to get people to stop and pay attention than if I back out mostly-blindly into traffic. In some parking spots where it’s tight and I am flanked by two tanks on each side I’ll need to be nearly completely out to see what’s out there. At home I park diagonally because We have one vehicle and two enormous adjacent parking spots where our X-trail woul fit across. ---
**Author:** ![saje](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saje/32/3631_2.png) [@saje](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saje)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/136 "2015-04-06T11:04:55Z")
I’m astounded that the OP is bitching about having to wait for 20 or 30 seconds. And is backed up by a few others. Oh, the humanity… (not enough eye-roll in the world) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/137 "2015-04-06T12:02:35Z")
The zero sum game remark I made early on in the thread was an argument against the OPs idea that backing in costs total time. My point was that if you are quick pulling in head first you’ll still be slower backing out, making someone wait. It’s zero sum in that somewhere along the timeline, people are going to wait for a car to back up. TANSTAAFL I do back into my driveway, but usually at work I pull through an open spot since I get there early and no one is in the lot yet. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bruce\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/138 "2015-04-06T17:12:00Z")
[Here](http://blog.ups.com/2013/03/01/what-backing-up-has-to-do-with-our-corporate-safety-culture/) is a link about UPS trucks being backed in, I’m gathering it’s company policy there(I just skimmed over the link). I’m pretty sure it’s the same at most companies in the US, it is the policy where I work and has been for years. The OP is wrong, this has been a settled issue for years. [Another relevant article from Slate.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2011/02/youre_parking_wrong.2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/139 "2015-04-06T19:08:03Z")
> [@Bruce\_Wayne](#): > > [Here](http://blog.ups.com/2013/03/01/what-backing-up-has-to-do-with-our-corporate-safety-culture/) is a link about UPS trucks being backed in, I’m gathering it’s company policy there(I just skimmed over the link). I’m pretty sure it’s the same at most companies in the US, it is the policy where I work and has been for years. The OP is wrong, this has been a settled issue for years. [Another relevant article from Slate.](http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2011/02/youre_parking_wrong.2.html) But again, both of these articles assert that backing in is safer, but offer no data to support that claim. If this has really been settled for years, the numbers should be easy to find. Where are they? ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793/140 "2015-04-06T19:16:05Z")
I back in about 70% of the time for a very simple reason. I drive a big truck and it makes it a whole lot easier to pull out of the spot after people park next to me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-perverse-motivation-of-back-in-parkers/716793.md?page=8)