# The Phenomenon: What is it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2025, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583 "2025-05-20T13:19:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/281 "2025-05-29T11:47:47Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Science isn’t threatened by curiosity. It’s powered by it. Yes. But there’s a difference between curiosity and credulity. Or, to use a phrase from _X Files_ a show that’s all about The Phenomenon in various forms, there’s a difference between “I believe” and “I want to believe”. It seems to me like you’re blurring these two things, when in reality there should be a huge bright line between “I believe” and “I want to believe”. There’s nothing wrong with “I want to believe” as long as (general) you are being honest with yourself that that’s what your doing, and not mixing it up with what you should actually believe based on the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/282 "2025-05-29T11:55:06Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It’s essentially a Rorschach test - you see what you want to see. Hey, doc, you’re the one that keeps showing me dirty pictures. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/283 "2025-05-29T12:16:22Z")
It’s Folklore. It’s **all** Folklore. “Backed up” so to speak, with out-of-focus, poorly-faked, images. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/284 "2025-05-29T12:23:00Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > And if so, then let’s document and explain them all systematically, not pick off one example and declare victory. Okay. Do you agree that we have completely disposed of that Puerto Rican heart-shaped balloon example from earlier? If not, please be specific and systematic: what remains to be explained there? If so, let’s be systematic. What’s next? Once again: I’m asking you to focus on one specific intersection in the grid and tell us what we can see there. [![](https://a.storyblok.com/f/253271/618x525/36a38d6cb0/36_herm_main.png/m/) ](https://a.storyblok.com/f/253271/618x525/36a38d6cb0/36_herm_main.png/m/) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/285 "2025-05-29T12:26:02Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > what if the signal keeps reappearing in the noise different places, different sensors, different decades? Is that just coincidence? No. It is _exactly_ what is expected. _Wherever_ and _whenever_ human minds are looking closely at the nebulous data (noise) they will see patterns and impose primed perceptions to try to make sense out of it, perceive false signals. Exactly as the Rorschach test joke goes. @Jackmannii alluded to the vaccine conspiracy nuts … and exactly like that … it just seems weird to them that “there is this pattern of autism showing up after getting vaccines, and an explosion of the disease that is otherwise unexplained.” The data points of the pattern are of course often fictional, and the reality, when investigated throughly, being apparent associations are what would be expected by chance. The increase in diagnosed autism explained fairly well by a broader clinical definition and wider _use_ of the label (also imposing a primed signal on noisy and nebulous input to some degree). But a fictive pattern has been created, a false signal perceived, and will be believed by some no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/286 "2025-05-29T12:40:18Z")
It all boils down to stopping at asking the questions because actually finding out answers somehow removes a child-like wonder…but this attitude openly defies the actual question posed in the title, the main reason for this board’s existence, and science itself. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/287 "2025-05-29T12:41:47Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But radar returns, multi-sensor confirmations, This two are the same, and as mentioned before, not concurrent confirmations or just a single sensor as per the “big cases” you pointed at. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > and trained military witnesses don’t fall neatly into the same bin as Bigfoot tracks or pirate treasure. Actually, they do. They are human beings after all. > [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > And the moment we pretend they do, we risk blinding ourselves to potentially novel physics or mischaracterized atmospheric phenomena or yes, something even stranger. Not accurate at all, all the debunkings took years if not decades of looking back, they were not ignored at all. That it **leads** then to now certifiable mockery for guys like Adamski and Vallee is the result of that very thing you demand. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/288 "2025-05-29T12:52:05Z")
That’s fair, false patterns do happen. But if a pattern keeps showing up across radically different systems, times, and observers, the signal might be more than just noise. Dismissing it outright risks the same cognitive trap confirmation bias, just flipped. I’m not asking for belief, only that we stay open to persistent uncertainty. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/289 "2025-05-29T12:55:17Z")
For the last time, _nobody is dismissing anything outright!_ To say something this ridiculous is to totally ignore all the answers given over the years. This is NOT “science”!! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/290 "2025-05-29T12:56:43Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But if a pattern keeps showing up across radically different systems, times, and observers But, this didn’t happen. Flying saucers only show up in modern times, and mostly in English speaking countries, for example. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/291 "2025-05-29T12:57:49Z")
Sure, human beings are fallible, military or not. But dismissing radar, FLIR, and visual testimony as just folklore in uniform ignores the qualitative shift in data. The problem isn’t that they’ve all been “debunked” but that most explanations rest on interpretive scaffolding, not definitive proof. If it takes decades to walk back one case, that’s not claritythat’s a signal worth tracking. I’m not defending Adamsk, I’m asking why credible people keep stumbling into similar edges of perception. That’s not fantasy. That’s a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/292 "2025-05-29T12:58:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > For the last time \ but as it turned out, it was _not to be_ the last time… ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/293 "2025-05-29T12:58:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It all boils down to stopping at asking the questions because actually finding out answers somehow removes a child-like wonder…but this attitude openly defies the actual question posed in the title, the main reason for this board’s existence, and science itself. Yes, what I noticed is what is taking place, in discussions like this one, it is more popular to fall for the Phenomenon as being a portal to a magical world, rather than to ask the most likely but dangerous question: **[Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F)** > **[Have UFOs been a cover for high-tech defense research? - Asia Times](https://asiatimes.com/2023/10/have-ufos-been-a-cover-for-high-tech-defense-research/)** > > Could the decades-long pursuit of unraveling the UFO mystery potentially function as a cover for advanced government research and testing programs for > However, [in 1997](https://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/03/us/cia-admits-government-lied-about-ufo-sightings.html), the US Central Intelligence Agency revealed that the military had lied to the public throughout the Cold War about many UFO sightings to obscure its black projects and keep Moscow in the dark about technological advancements. Blaming sightings on natural phenomena like ice crystals and temperature inversions fueled public distrust toward the government and its claims about UFOs/UAPs. > > Many secret military aircraft were frequently mistaken for UFOs, such as [the U-2 reconnaissance plane](https://www.daytondailynews.com/news/local/cia-most-ufo-sightings-50s-60s-were-spy-planes/BYl69uDgoRQ65QdNPBzqgM/), introduced in the 1950s, which featured a gray frame that often reflected the sun. The SR-71 “Blackbird” [meanwhile started service in 1966](https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006PhTea..44..229R/abstract) and wasn’t declassified until the 1990s. Its distinctive shape, speed, and altitude capabilities were often mistaken for a UFO. > > The B-2 Spirit, introduced in the late 1980s, also had a unique aerodynamic design and its ability to control lift, thrust, and drag at low speeds often gave the appearance that [it was hovering](https://www.autoevolution.com/news/b-2-spirit-on-low-approach-looks-like-a-hovering-alien-ship-171883.html). ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/294 "2025-05-29T13:03:12Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But dismissing radar, FLIR, and visual testimony as just folklore in uniform ignores the qualitative shift in data. Endlessly repeating this doesn’t make it any more true. No one has dismissed any evidence; it’s been examined and found wanting. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/295 "2025-05-29T13:03:24Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Sure, human beings are fallible, military or not. But dismissing radar, FLIR, and visual testimony as just folklore in uniform ignores the qualitative shift in data. Straw-man, no one said anything about dismissing radar data. In reality the proponents there dismissed it because it was not there. The Puerto Rico event, for example, had no radar report; because, it was seen by the infrared sensor, and was likely a couple of small balloons. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/296 "2025-05-29T13:05:30Z")
You’re misrepresenting the point. No one’s claiming every radar ping is proof of aliens. What I’m arguing is that the pattern of multi-sensor anomalies, including radar, FLIR, and trained visual testimony across multiple incidents, deserves more than retrofitted mundane explanations after the fact. Puerto Rico? Maybe balloons. But when “maybe balloons” becomes the boilerplate for every unexplained multi-sensor anomaly, you’re not explaining its pacifying. There’s a qualitative shift here in how often the improbable gets waved away with the same handful of guesses. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/297 "2025-05-29T13:07:16Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > You’re misrepresenting the point. No one’s claiming every radar ping is proof of aliens. Nope, just pointing out that **uncertainty is not your friend**. The evidence points to a couple of more likely explanations that should not be ignored. In the context of climate change it means that lingering uncertainties about the future impacts of climate change should not be used as an excuse for inaction, in our cases here, the inaction is not only about the never “what is coming next?” (it never comes when the assumption is aliens) but the inaction of what we should be doing if the Phenomenon actually is about other issues that can be looked at. The uncertainties do not point to aliens or extra dimensional beings. It points more likely to Joseph Campbell terrain, or the chronic status of society ignoring the constant Faustian bargain of feeding a military industry that limits the good of that modern societies could do. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/298 "2025-05-29T13:18:04Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But when “maybe balloons” becomes the boilerplate for every unexplained multi-sensor anomaly, you’re not explaining its pacifying. Nope to this too, the most likely explanation of that being balloons is based on the plots of the direction and speed of the item, _just a little bit less than the speed and direction of the wind then._ **The lack of radar** is also a thing to consider, as it is more likely to point to that being just very small balloons. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/299 "2025-05-29T13:22:36Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > What I’m arguing is that the pattern of multi-sensor anomalies, including radar, FLIR, and trained visual testimony across multiple incidents, deserves more than retrofitted mundane explanations after the fact. “Deserves” makes it very clear that you will not accept mundane explanations even if they are true. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2025, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583/300 "2025-05-29T13:22:53Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > But when “maybe balloons” becomes the boilerplate for every unexplained multi-sensor anomaly, you’re not explaining its pacifying. And if this is actually happening, you _might_ have a point. But it isn’t. So you don’t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-phenomenon-what-is-it/1018583.md?page=16)